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[Johnny75]

Agreed, at least the ref only has one view, makes a decision and that's it. With VAR we have minutes of standing about in every game only for the wrong decision to be regularly reached every week.

So we have less spontaneous moments and incorrect decisions, feels like a lose/lose situation (and don't say its the people not the tech, the introduction of a video review = time and therefore slows the pace and reduces the fun).

You think having less incorrect decisions is a loss?

 

[Tony Towner]

Agreed, at least the ref only has one view, makes a decision and that's it. With VAR we have minutes of standing about in every game only for the wrong decision to be regularly reached every week.

So we have less spontaneous moments and incorrect decisions, feels like a lose/lose situation (and don't say its the people not the tech, the introduction of a video review = time and therefore slows the pace and reduces the fun).

Agreed, I said similar at the start of the thread. I get and agree in the broadest sense with the it's not the tech it's those using it argument. Where I differ from that is PGMOL are not going to change, they aren't going to amend the way they interpret it, throw it over to an independent body or acknowledge it's not working. PGMOL in the PL is VAR

 

[Aikiwolf]

You think having less incorrect decisions is a loss?

I don't think we have less incorrect decisions and we have just introduced delays.

I also think football is at its best when it's fast flowing, which isn't achievable with minutes wasted to still get a decision wrong.

 

[fansagainstvar]

I don't think we have less incorrect decisions and we have just introduced delays.

I also think football is at its best when it's fast flowing, which isn't achievable with minutes wasted to still get a decision wrong.

Spot on

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

No VAR the penalty is still given. Officials not tech, as fucking always.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't think we have less incorrect decisions and we have just introduced delays.

I also think football is at its best when it's fast flowing, which isn't achievable with minutes wasted to still get a decision wrong.

We do have less incorrect decisions. That's factual.

I don't disagree about fast flowing but today at Newcastle was the correct use of the technology. Albeit they could speed it up a lot.

I would argue we haven't been done by VAR today either. There isn't enough evidence to overturn what isn't a good decision by the referee.

The referees on the pitch are the issue not the technology.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We definitely have less incorrect decisions, that is a fact.

Everything else that comes with it though, well that's the problem.

 

[Aikiwolf]

No VAR the penalty is still given. Officials not tech, as fucking always.

Correct, but then fans haven't stood around for 4 mins in the rain for the wrong decision?

 

[Aikiwolf]

We do have less incorrect decisions. That's factual.

I don't disagree about fast flowing but today at Newcastle was the correct use of the technology. Albeit they could speed it up a lot.

I would argue we haven't been done by VAR today either. There isn't enough evidence to overturn what isn't a good decision by the referee.

The referees on the pitch are the issue not the technology.

I think the tech is always going to introduce delays and spoil the flow of football.

Imo there are 3 ways to fix it:
1) get rid of VAR (not happening)
2) limit VAR reviews to 30 seconds with no slow-mo
3) VAR fully refs the game and the person on the pitch is the mouthpiece.

 

[Tony Towner]

We definitely have less incorrect decisions, that is a fact.

Everything else that comes with it though, well that's the problem.

No, it's Howard Webb's fact.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Fine. Get rid and see how many more incorrect and corrupt decisions Howard and his crew can come up with.

It is the officials that are the problem.

 

[Tony Towner]

The officials are shit, so let's let the same officials make it even more shit. That feels more like denial than a solution. Not aimed specifically at you, but trying to divorce VAR from PGMOL is quite frankly bizarre imo. This is what it is, so you accept this version or none at all. I'm firmly in the camp of the latter, even though its not going to happen

 

[Johnny75]

The officials are shit, so let's let the same officials make it even more shit. That feels more like denial than a solution. Not aimed specifically at you, but trying to divorce VAR from PGMOL is quite frankly bizarre imo. This is what it is, so you accept this version or none at all. I'm firmly in the camp of the latter, even though its not going to happen

That seems fucking idiocy to me but hey ho.

 

[The Bear]

Ultimately the blame lies in the overly high bar to overturn decisions and lack of willingness to ask the referee to have another look at incidents that have some doubt attached to them.

But today it wouldn't have made a difference because Jones would have stuck with his decision, but then at least we have just the ref to blame, like it used to be, rather than the video processes involved and a third party official as well.

 

[Johnny75]

No, it's Howard Webb's fact.

It isn't but you keep deluding yourself.

 

[jd1981]

The VAR system pretty much needs a reset even down to the language it uses.
Statements like “minimum interference” and “don’t re-ref the game” need to be binned off you have VAR so you’re doing the above two statements anyway.
The biggest issue is the “clear & obvious” mantra.
It’s such a vague thing to have and offers a convenient excuse for poor decisions. Basically they’re saying to VAR “yes you mind think it’s the wrong call, but is it really that bad to overturn it, oh and do that ASAP” frazzles the mind example being at Old Trafford where Salisbury talked himself out of the right call.
Because of “clear & obvious” it was deemed our player being clattered at old Trafford was a non pen and the last 2 pens we’ve concede with barely contact are penalties. Regardless of an apology the mantra set puts severe doubt in minds of VAR.
Basically imagine seeing all 3 incidents for the first time and being asked to guess which one wasn’t awarded as a penalty?
The language should be “we won’t as close to the correct call on the big decisions” VAR mantra “do you think that the right call?” Especially with the benefit of replays. If no tell them to look at it again.
Frankly no one gives a toss about re-reffing games they just want common sense and the right decisions.
The Premier League itself needs to demand better to it’s their competition and its officials are atrocious.

 

[Tony Towner]

It isn't but you keep deluding yourself.

I do question who is delusional and who has confirmation bias on this discussion

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Basically imagine seeing all 3 incidents for the first time and being asked to guess which one wasn’t awarded as a penalty?

That's an excellent point.

 

[Johnny75]

I do question who is delusional and who has confirmation bias on this discussion

A mirror will help you I would've thought

 

[Johnny75]

Frankly no one gives a toss about re-reffing games they just want common sense and the right decisions.
The Premier League itself needs to demand better to it’s their competition and its officials are atrocious.

Absolutely this. The egos of the officials need to be parked. That seems a very difficult task right now.