2024 General Election Thread

[Dire Wolf]

Is this true? Starmer could easily poll less than Labour in 2017 and that was a left wing manifesto. But...

Every election in my adult life has been less about the detailed policies of the parties and more about a handful of issues. Thatcher and Blair both came to power on a wave of discontent, Cameron the same. 2015, a referendum promise probably shaded it for Cameron, 2017 the belief that Labour would reverse Brexit, 2019 that Gimp would make Brexit happen.

Labour could offer a radical left wing alternative and win in 2024 (they can't because they wouldn't be able to afford it/implement it). I think Starmer should have been more visionary given he has the space to work with as the cons are in free fall. I don't think that is an unwarranted criticism.

It should be more than being better than the current lot.

They could absolutely afford to do some things to reverse the death spiral of public services and the NHS. They are choosing an economic model that prohibits this. It isn't the only viable economic model.

Your last sentence is spot on.

 

[sycophantia]

They could absolutely afford to do some things to reverse the death spiral of public services and the NHS. They are choosing an economic model that prohibits this. It isn't the only viable economic model.

Your last sentence is spot on.

I'm hoping once in office Labour do 'some things' maybe I'm a bit naive.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Agree with a lot of this apart from a radical left wing Labour would still win. I think at best it would be hung, even a win would be marginal at best.

I guess that depends on how you define "radical left wing"... for me, 2017 was.

 

[Dire Wolf]

I'm hoping once in office Labour do 'some things' maybe I'm a bit naive.

Outsourcing to private companies costs the NHS billions, they could end that for one thing and you know, actually invest that money in the NHS. But they are committed to continuing the fragmentation of the NHS to private companies so they won't.

Millions of people are in favour of taking back public control of energy companies, 'public' transport, including railways, water companies. All of those things would reduce cost for the users, benefit ordinary people in the middle of a cost of living crisis, actually help improve the quality of life for ordinary people, and give them more disposable income which they would be able to then spend and boost the economy. It is a proven fact that the best boost to the economy is giving more money to the people who are going to spend it, the people who have the least. Instead we have a political class that are invested in increasing the wealth of the wealthiest, who in turn hoard it, very often in offshore tax havens that not only don't boost the economy, actively constrict it further. No-one, no-one, no-one in this election campaign is actively saying this so you get total acceptance of 'orthodox' economic policies. Labour could and should, be offering a legitimate and entirely workable alternative to that doctrine. They simply are not. Instead they are courting wankers like that one in the video posted earlier in the thread.

 

[Tredman]

Investing takes time to see improvements. If you wanted to solve the outsourcing problem the only solution which doesn’t make things worse at first is compulsory purchase.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Investing takes time to see improvements. If you wanted to solve the outsourcing problem the only solution which doesn’t make things worse at first is compulsory purchase.

I think most people would be prepared to accept short term pain for the long term survivability and improvement of the NHS.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I think most people..

I don't.

 

[sycophantia]

Outsourcing to private companies costs the NHS billions, they could end that for one thing and you know, actually invest that money in the NHS. But they are committed to continuing the fragmentation of the NHS to private companies so they won't.

Millions of people are in favour of taking back public control of energy companies, 'public' transport, including railways, water companies. All of those things would reduce cost for the users, benefit ordinary people in the middle of a cost of living crisis, actually help improve the quality of life for ordinary people, and give them more disposable income which they would be able to then spend and boost the economy. It is a proven fact that the best boost to the economy is giving more money to the people who are going to spend it, the people who have the least. Instead we have a political class that are invested in increasing the wealth of the wealthiest, who in turn hoard it, very often in offshore tax havens that not only don't boost the economy, actively constrict it further. No-one, no-one, no-one in this election campaign is actively saying this so you get total acceptance of 'orthodox' economic policies. Labour could and should, be offering a legitimate and entirely workable alternative to that doctrine. They simply are not. Instead they are courting wankers like that one in the video posted earlier in the thread.

I get that and agree but that won't happen overnight. The biggest worry for me is that electorate will see very little difference in their day to day lives after one term and next time Labour will lose their massive majority.
It's going to take 2 or probably 3 terms of Labour government to be able to implement those policies after 3 terms of Tory misrule. Will people wait that long?

 

[Dire Wolf]

I get that and agree but that won't happen overnight. The biggest worry for me is that electorate will see very little difference in their day to day lives after one term and next time Labour will lose their massive majority.
It's going to take 2 or probably 3 terms of Labour government to be able to implement those policies after 3 terms of Tory misrule. Will people wait that long?

I have already predicted what I think will happen based on precedent. I think the Labour government will massively fail the people at the poorest end of society and we will get a huge growth in far right politics. I fear quite strongly that we are going to be headed down a very bad societal route, and it will be significantly worsened by the shift rightwards of the Labour Party. History backs this up.

 

[sycophantia]

I have already predicted what I think will happen based on precedent. I think the Labour government will massively fail the people at the poorest end of society and we will get a huge growth in far right politics. I fear quite strongly that we are going to be headed down a very bad societal route, and it will be significantly worsened by the shift rightwards of the Labour Party. History backs this up.

That would be very sad if true, I'm more hopeful that you're wrong though. It will take patience and we all know British people aren't well known for that.

 

[Tredman]

I think most people would be prepared to accept short term pain for the long term survivability and improvement of the NHS.

No thanks.

 

[Dire Wolf]

No thanks.

You don't want a better, working NHS? You prefer that it is taken over by the private sector?

 

[Templeton Peck]

Oh dear TP. Not voting - and the vote is something our left wing progressive grandparents and others literally fought for - is one of the major reasons the tories get in and then fed up people vote for Independents, Reform/NF/AfD/trumpers or whatever the loons are called on any particular day in any particular place. The UK and its electorate are in a right ******* mess and that's why we simply must lower our standards and get Blair Mark 2 and his team elected. Warts and all. I have my postal vote sitting here for Wolverhampton West and I have to accept what is required for the future. Please reconsider.

I didn't say I wasn't voting at all. Just not for Labour.

 

[Dire Wolf]

That would be very sad if true, I'm more hopeful that you're wrong though. It will take patience and we all know British people aren't well known for that.

I hope I'm wrong too. But by whatever evidence you choose, historical evidence, anecdotal evidence, sociological theory, political theory, philosophical studies: all would heavily suggest that a rise in far right politics is almost certain unless the incoming social democratic/'socialist' government demonstrably makes the lives better of ordinary people.

 

[Tredman]

You don't want a better, working NHS? You prefer that it is taken over by the private sector?

Way to take it out of context. I’m not prepared to accept your ‘short term pain’ which may result in the death of close family members.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

The current election campaign is a game of chess, with no real champions present.
With two weeks to go starmer has looked at his position on the board and is simply juggling his pawns back and forth to ensure he leaves nothing open, the tories are playing suicide chess and losing critical pieces all over the board.
If/when labour win, i think we will see the NHS take massive priority, with a bigger hit on the rich, big companies, and oil and gas mega companies than currently outlined in the stalemate period.
It's position dictated and pushed forward by Sunak and Tory incompetance.
And it's bloody logical from starmers point of view.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Way to take it out of context. I’m not prepared to accept your ‘short term pain’ which may result in the death of close family members.

People have family members dying already because of the inadequate funding of the NHS, in record numbers. Things need to be done to rectify that. Continuing to lose billions to the private sector is going to make that trend worse.

 

[sycophantia]

The current election campaign is a game of chess, with no real champions present.
With two weeks to go starmer has looked at his position on the board and is simply juggling his pawns back and forth to ensure he leaves nothing open, the tories are playing suicide chess and losing critical pieces all over the board.
If/when labour win, i think we will see the NHS take massive priority, with a bigger hit on the rich, big companies, and oil and gas mega companies than currently outlined in the stalemate period.
It's position dictated and pushed forward by Sunak and Tory incompetance.
And it's bloody logical from starmers point of view.

This is the hope.

 

[Tredman]

People have family members dying already because of the inadequate funding of the NHS, in record numbers. Things need to be done to rectify that. Continuing to lose billions to the private sector is going to make that trend worse.

It’s not good enough for sure. Making it worse is not acceptable however short term that may be - loads of stuff gets outsourced, if it is outsourced for poor results and value then it should be brought back or re-tendered. Blanket saying we’ll stop that and not replace it immediately will kill people.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's a very Tory thing to want power for power's sake, or believe that you were born to rule (both Cameron and Johnson definitely fall into both brackets, it's unclear why Sunak ever went into politics as he didn't need to and he isn't very good at it either).

I don't think any Labour Government ever works that way and I doubt it applies to Starmer either.