2024 General Election Thread

[prawnking]

They're just not though. Currently centre right. Been there for most of the past 30 years. They were closer to the centre in 97 than they are now though for sure.

They currently support low public spending and low taxation. Right wing policies. They talk a lot about immigration and are pro-Brexit. Right wing.

If you don't believe me look at the kind of people who are now endorsing them. Billionaires and millionaires don't usually support left wing parties. Tory MPs have converted to Labour.

I get he's not Sunak and that's lovely and that for some reason you feel the need to defend him, but let's not pretend he's a centrist.

Talking about immigration doesn't make you right wing. Not talking about it is worse. How you talk about it matters more.

And as for being pro-Brexit, what do you think Corbyn thought about the EU and Brexit?

Just be honest, even if Labour were centrist by your definition, they still wouldn't be left enough. No one ever is.

 

[Kenny]

Just be honest, even if Labour were centrist by your definition, they still wouldn't be left enough. No one ever is

He needs Paul Heaton to be the leader of the Labour Party. A man so left wing he says he makes Corbyn appear to be on the right...

 

[Aikiwolf]

Bit odd that this forum seems to think this iteration of Labour is left wing.

Shows how the political landscape has shifted that a fairly centrist platform is seen as "left".

 

[Wellen Wolf]

This. The Tories do their job. Labour don't.

Not allowed to. There was progress with the post WW2 changes that they couldn't argue with and that stretched into only accepting so much from Wilson. Then they took back control and it all went wrong for the country and especially the workers ;-(
IMHO.

 

[Templeton Peck]

They're absolutely not 'low taxation' though, are they?

The tax burden is massive as we know - there isn't the room or the public appetite to increase any of the big three. But equally there's not been a hint of decrease anywhere, so saying they're 'low tax' is clearly bollocks.

They're obviously keeping a CGT move in the back the pocket which will, I'm presuming, be used to pay for the double child cap.

They're not pro-brexit. They're anti letting reform/tories weaponise a stance on it prior to the election. There's a renegotiation in 2025; I don't think we'll get CU or SM then but certainly a softening of tensions. At the end of the day if they came out and put rejoin in this manifesto, they'd get hammered and the polls would look a lot different. It's too risky electorally, and too important to get wrong again. Maybe with 5 years to use government to soften the language around it ahead of the next election it'll be different.

The desperation of a massive portion of former Labour voters to SKS as right wing just plain weird, and falls apart under the most minute scrutiny. So he hasn't been able to stick to his 5 year old pledges, he's not moses. The world changes.

Low public spending - right wing.
Anti-immigration - right wing.
They're committed to making Brexit work. I don't know what to tell you. The reasons for that are neither here nor there.
Endorsed by millionaires and billionaires. Tory MPs have converted to Labour. Natalie Elphicke a big lefty I spose?

I mean how much further Right does the prick have to be?

The pledges are barely 4 years old ffs. Not Moses. Thank god he's not judged to the same standards as the scary jam maker.

 

[Templeton Peck]

He needs Paul Heaton to be the leader of the Labour Party. A man so left wing he says he makes Corbyn appear to be on the right...

I mean I voted for Starmer...

 

[Templeton Peck]

Overton window - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Del Woppio]

There's a difference between low public spending, and being left in the financial shit so not promising the moon on a stick until you've had half a chance to sort things out.

There's a difference between being 'anti-immigration', and thinking that net migration of 700k per year is sustainable

There's a difference between trying to make brexit be less shit than it is, and being pro-brexit.

Elphick isn't Labour, she just wanted to bloody Sunak's nose. He shouldn't have allowed it to happen. Caldwell? He was on Newsnight, he's anti-Tory and wants to give somebody else a shot. What about Dale Vince, are we happy he's putting money in?

4 years (yikes I was far out) is a long time, and there's been quite a lot happen. You think he should still just spend tens of billions buying out energy companies given the state of public finances?

I'm not even especially aligned with them, but it's the best available option, and ultimately we've got a better chance of shifting a centrist labour to the left than we have of moving the dial in any other way.

He's just playing the hand he's been dealt, simple as that. Sticking to a strategy when the rest of the world has changed and requires different solutions is just braindead.

 

[prawnking]

Low public spending - right wing.
Anti-immigration - right wing.

Not much nuance in the world of the pure, obviously

 

[Kenny]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1804622230867026110

 

[Walshes Wolves]

YouGov

survey.yougov.com

 

[ROVERT47]

Fucking ell, the gift that keeps on giving. Gambling scandal obviously.

 

[Del Woppio]

YouGov

survey.yougov.com

Must be wrong, I got 'progressive activist' rather than 'right wing shill'

 

[prawnking]

 

[Doctor Doog]

I thought I might be a Progressive Activist and it turns out that I am.

 

[prawnking]

Bit odd that this forum seems to think this iteration of Labour is left wing.

Shows how the political landscape has shifted that a fairly centrist platform is seen as "left".

It's an odd phenomenon generally. Plenty of commentators and publications still scaremongering about this imminent Labour victory ushering in the 'hard-left' and talk of socialist dystopias and open borders.

Couple that with the actual hard left who generally think everything Labour ever do is a 'betrayal', and it's no wonder that the Tories believe they're born to rule...they usually end up doing just that, and the country suffers accordingly

 

[Johnny75]

Bit odd that this forum seems to think this iteration of Labour is left wing.

Shows how the political landscape has shifted that a fairly centrist platform is seen as "left".

I don't think anybody thinks they're on the left on here.

I think they're central, some of the hard left Corbynites think they're slightly right of reform.

 

[Tredman]

Mitchell is a nice guy so let’s ignore the fact that he and his party have fucked over the country and destroyed overseas aid. Wanker.

 

[Templeton Peck]

There's a difference between low public spending, and being left in the financial shit so not promising the moon on a stick until you've had half a chance to sort things out.

Aside from this totally not being how govt spending works, lets pretend for a second that it is. Cutting spending is a right wing solution to holes in public finances, raising taxes would be a left wing one.

There's a difference between being 'anti-immigration', and thinking that net migration of 700k per year is sustainable

Left wingers are usually internationalists so see people as being separated by class rather than borders. They would talk up the benefits of immigration and argue that the best way to stop movement of people would be to address the issues that force people to move such as economics or violence. You can disagree with this position, but that's a separate argument.

There's a difference between trying to make brexit be less shit than it is, and being pro-brexit.

Indeed. But they're not looking to reverse it and you won't hear any of the Labour big hitters blame Brexit for anything either. Also, you'll note the amount of Union Jacks and references to Britain in Labour communications. Not a lefty thing.

Elphick isn't Labour, she just wanted to bloody Sunak's nose. He shouldn't have allowed it to happen. Caldwell? He was on Newsnight, he's anti-Tory and wants to give somebody else a shot. What about Dale Vince, are we happy he's putting money in?

Would Elphicke have crossed the floor with Corbyn as leader? Unlikely.

Biggest donors at the moment are apartheid boycott busting Gary Lubner and Lord Sainsbury. Sainsbury stopped donating during Corbyn's time and in 2019 donated to the famously left wing Liberal Democrats.

4 years (yikes I was far out) is a long time, and there's been quite a lot happen. You think he should still just spend tens of billions buying out energy companies given the state of public finances?

The world isn't exactly unrecognisable from the one that existed a whole 4 years ago. In any case, Starmer didn't just abandon some of his pledges - he fucked them all off. He might make the (bogus) argument that Ukraine and Covid had an impact on finances but he's also abandoned his pledge to abolish the House of Lords. Another one was 'defend free movement as we leave the EU' - binned. He's also scrapped his pledge to raise tax on the top 5% of earners.

I'm not even especially aligned with them, but it's the best available option, and ultimately we've got a better chance of shifting a centrist labour to the left than we have of moving the dial in any other way.

He's just playing the hand he's been dealt, simple as that. Sticking to a strategy when the rest of the world has changed and requires different solutions is just braindead.

Indeed. I wonder how much of a shit the climate, the homeless and hungry children give a shit about his fiscal rules.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

YouGov

survey.yougov.com

I got Progressive Activist too. We either all think the same or the questions are loaded in favour of it.