Wolves 1-3 Man City - Verdict Thread

[Banjo]

Traore was appalling in the first half but was playing out of position. Hopefully this puts the “calculated risk” argument to bed. We should never have been going in to two competitive PL games with him as our only option at RWB.

Mate, you made this same point in the comms thread and I'm not sure you know what a taking a "calculated risk" means.

It means deliberately taking a chance after weighing up your options. That's what the club did. It's a fact. It's not an "argument": they decided to take the risk of selling Doherty even if it meant not signing a replacement before the season started. It happened. It's a fact. So there's no "argument" to have: the risk was calculated and they took it!

Assessing risk is part of any business decision. Would we have won today if Doherty had played? Would we have been able to replace Doherty with Semedo if we'd have turned down Spurs' offer when they made it in order to make sure Doherty could play for us today? Is the former preferable over the latter when carrying out the risk assessment? I don't mean that rhetorically: I'm genuinely interested in your view on that.

Those are the kind of calculations you take when you assess risk. The club will have to decide whether playing two league games without a recognised RWB and only winning one was worth it in the long run if it means upgrading on Doherty. That's the calculated risk they decided to take.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Even though we were much improved, I found myself more annoyed by the 2nd half than I was watching the 1st. You can't miss chances like that and expect to get anything out of a game against Man City.

Traore was absolutely abysmal for 53 mins but then as soon as he got into the game we started creating chances. Hopefully we won't have to see him as a RWB again for a while.

I was losing my rag with Podence's decision making in and around the penalty area but then he went and nutmegged De Bruyne and put in a peach of a cross for Raul!

Like others have said, Moutinho had a stinker. He was well off it. It's rare for him to play that badly but he's still a quality player and no need to write him off as past it yet.

I won't say much about the first half. Man City were so good they made everyone bar Patricio look appalling.

 

[Paul]

You see I have a different view on Traore, he seems quite happy to stand in the opposition half and wait 10/15 minutes to make an amazing dribble, if he runs into a dead end, looses it needlessly or skies a cross it doesn't matter, consequences are minimal, but at RWB you at least need to pay attention for the whole time you're there, you at least need to show interest, you cock up and the consequences are a lot worse, I just don't think it's in his psyche to shoulder that responsibility, he's happier being an extravagant luxury.

Saiss was still the best defender on the pitch regardless of his error so any knee jerk (a phrase only half right) reaction is laughable.

 

[Tredman]

I’m sure we’ve had the discussion a few million times, but Traore is a sprinter. Short periods of very intense effort followed by recuperation. Expecting him to jog around like Moutinho is unrealistic.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I think we are a decent bit away from the Liverpool and Man City and in danger of falling away from Chelsea, Spurs , Arsenal, Everton, Man Utd and Leicester. For the chances we had to only register one shot on target is poor regardless of who you are playing. Yes we were awful in the first half and much improved in the second but we had set a really low bar. Defensively we looked all at sea and it was very clear that Traore at wing back sets Boly on edge. It looked like he didnt trust him there and as a result Boly was edgy. It has to end for me and as he isnt any use in a front two he only plays when we go 3-4-3 and he starts RWF. Yes it will be better when we get a new RWB and the [point becomes moot. On to Vinagre. He needs a slap really now. He actually isnt good enough to try all those ridiculous step overs and defensively he is light. We bemoaned Barry Douglas at times defensively but you could not argue his left foot was a wand. Vinny needs to improve both ends of the pitch and quick.

Moutinho got bossed yesterday by City and the midfield overrun. Its no disgrace but I fear he may be 2-3% slower than last year and though that doesnt sound much its very fine margins at this level. If he starts it has to be in a three for me. Slightly concerned about Fabio who looked completely lost against City. Did he actually touch the ball? Not saying he will flop but he may need a confidence shot and quickly. I liked the look of Neto and Podence in all areas except their shooting/ accuracy at goal. It sucks and without Jota they both will need to contribute goals this season to supplement Raul. They are both very capable of it and should get 5-6 each so at the moment I am not too concerned.

Traore also needs to score more. To do that he needs to be up front as mentioned on the right of a three. Against a number of the premier league teams that 3-4-3 starting will work really well. City are just too good and were never going to be beaten 4 times on the bounce by us. I still see big six games as a point at home lose away dont disgrace yourself so I am not getting bent out of shape about losing to City. If anything its great that its already out of the way and we have a run of games where we can and should be accumulating some points.

 

[visage]

Agree with most of the above.

Minor nitpick - Considering we were chasing an equaliser, Silva didnt really seem to be up for it. Granted it was only a twenty minute cameo, but you'd hope on a home debut, chasing the game with nothing to lose he'd have been all over it.

 

[Boozad]

Fernandinho was the key for me last night, constant press denied us any real time on the ball and he protected Stones and Ake perfectly, his use of the ball was excellent as well. Didn’t look a day over 25 let alone 35.

 

[Tredman]

I think the press on Moutinho is what affected him - as soon as he got the ball they were all over him, forcing him to rush and causing him to be unable to pick the correct pass. Thought Neves actually dealt with it better than Moutinho, hindsight obviously but it was definitely a game for Donk and Neves.

Wonder if this is the reason behind the rumoured interest in Ox.

 

[Tredman]

I didn’t think Vini was *that* bad last night either. Some of the stuff being chucked around about him is a bit odd.

 

[Boozad]

Agree with most of the above.

Minor nitpick - Considering we were chasing an equaliser, Silva didnt really seem to be up for it. Granted it was only a twenty minute cameo, but you'd hope on a home debut, chasing the game with nothing to lose he'd have been all over it.

Just looked like a small fish in a very big pond to me. He’ll get used to the occasions, he’s had next to no first team experience yet and looked completely starstruck.

 

[Boozad]

I didn’t think Vini was *that* bad last night either. Some of the stuff being chucked around about him is a bit odd.

Defensively I thought he was OK but he really wasn’t very good going forwards.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Ox might be a possibility but I think Soumare is also an option. Nunos comments suggested we aren’t necessarily done after Semedo arrives so here’s hoping.

 

[Tredman]

Defensively I thought he was OK but he really wasn’t very good going forwards.

We pretty much had no attacking threat on the left at all last night. Might be a problem with the system when you have Neto dropping into CM. That said if there is space Vini should be able to utilise it.

 

[Derby Wolf]

I think the wins last season skewed how we might do last night. We had an awful lot go for us in the games last year, Ederson losing the plot, Sterling and Silva hitting the bar, Otamendi Otamendi-ing, lots of last ditch defending which flew wide rather than the third last night which flew in.

I'm not saying we didn't deserve those two wins but we were at 9/10 for every player and all the fine margins dropped for us.

Last night City were absolutely "at it" and some of our players were 6's and 7's.

I'm still hoping for a RCB, I'm not digging out Saiss but Boly looks much better on the left to me.

Take the positives out of that second half and make the very most out of the next 5 games.

 

[sycophantia]

I think we are a decent bit away from the Liverpool and Man City and in danger of falling away from Chelsea, Spurs , Arsenal, Everton, Man Utd and Leicester. For the chances we had to only register one shot on target is poor regardless of who you are playing. Yes we were awful in the first half and much improved in the second but we had set a really low bar. Defensively we looked all at sea and it was very clear that Traore at wing back sets Boly on edge. It looked like he didnt trust him there and as a result Boly was edgy. It has to end for me and as he isnt any use in a front two he only plays when we go 3-4-3 and he starts RWF. Yes it will be better when we get a new RWB and the [point becomes moot. On to Vinagre. He needs a slap really now. He actually isnt good enough to try all those ridiculous step overs and defensively he is light. We bemoaned Barry Douglas at times defensively but you could not argue his left foot was a wand. Vinny needs to improve both ends of the pitch and quick.

Moutinho got bossed yesterday by City and the midfield overrun. Its no disgrace but I fear he may be 2-3% slower than last year and though that doesnt sound much its very fine margins at this level. If he starts it has to be in a three for me. Slightly concerned about Fabio who looked completely lost against City. Did he actually touch the ball? Not saying he will flop but he may need a confidence shot and quickly. I liked the look of Neto and Podence in all areas except their shooting/ accuracy at goal. It sucks and without Jota they both will need to contribute goals this season to supplement Raul. They are both very capable of it and should get 5-6 each so at the moment I am not too concerned.

Traore also needs to score more. To do that he needs to be up front as mentioned on the right of a three. Against a number of the premier league teams that 3-4-3 starting will work really well. City are just too good and were never going to be beaten 4 times on the bounce by us. I still see big six games as a point at home lose away dont disgrace yourself so I am not getting bent out of shape about losing to City. If anything its great that its already out of the way and we have a run of games where we can and should be accumulating some points.

I agree with some of what you say but think its a bit early to be saying the likes of Everton and Leicester could leave us behind. Its a poor first half against one of Europes very best sides. We were the better team second half and should have got something out of the game apart from some woeful finishing. I think its far too early to be questioning the likes of Vinagre and Fabio. Also I agree with most that Moutinho and Boly were far from their best but I wouldn't be writing either off just yet.
If we don't get 4 points from the next 2 games I'll probably be more concerned but even then its very early days especially if we're trying to adjust our style of play

 

[Tony Towner]

I object in the strongest terms to including a pre season friendly when kids took penalties as part of a 3 game winning streak over City[emoji3]

 

[Boozad]

I object in the strongest terms to including a pre season friendly when kids took penalties as part of a 3 game winning streak over City[emoji3]

And me. Took me ages to fathom out which the third of ‘three straight wins’ against them was.

 

[Boozad]

We pretty much had no attacking threat on the left at all last night. Might be a problem with the system when you have Neto dropping into CM. That said if there is space Vini should be able to utilise it.

It’s certainly a strange system. We were trying to do what we did against Sheff Utd and it blatantly wasn’t working in that first half. Getting the width back in the second half helped a lot but Vinagre wasted so much in advanced positions it killed any momentum down that side.

 

[prawnking]

You see I have a different view on Traore, he seems quite happy to stand in the opposition half and wait 10/15 minutes to make an amazing dribble, if he runs into a dead end, looses it needlessly or skies a cross it doesn't matter, consequences are minimal, but at RWB you at least need to pay attention for the whole time you're there, you at least need to show interest, you cock up and the consequences are a lot worse, I just don't think it's in his psyche to shoulder that responsibility, he's happier being an extravagant luxury.

Saiss was still the best defender on the pitch regardless of his error so any knee jerk (a phrase only half right) reaction is laughable.

Not sure what the point is analysing Traore at WB too much. It obviously doesn't suit his natural game, it was a calculated risk by the club to sell Doc and possibly have two or more games with him there while we sort out new arrivals, anyone happy with that can't now moan about the outcome. And blame Traore to boot! It's probably over now anyway

Out of the back three, Saiss has done very well since moving back there. Over a season though, he just doesn't have the attributes Coady and Boly have at their best. I like him a lot, but he's an obvious upgrade area in the next few transfer windows if we want to really progress, most would agree with that, just as everyone agreed with it regarding Doc. And if Doc made a howler that led to a goal then you can bet that would be mentioned. You can disagree, but it's not weird or laughable.

I don't know why after every game a clutch of people have to bemoan the matchday thread. I think you're expecting something from it you're never gonna get. Everyone's tense and emotional unless it's a 3-0 romp, for a start, wish we'd stop treating that like a crime, or insinuating people are 'jerks'. It's hardly like it's full of people clamouring to sack Nuno, drop Raul or jettison Fosun

 

[prawnking]

I didn’t think Vini was *that* bad last night either. Some of the stuff being chucked around about him is a bit odd.

I think he had quite a lot of what little possession we had, and instead of either passing safely like Jonny or giving-and-going like Doc just seemed to hang on to it until something went wrong. That's probably where the frustration comes from. I'd play him if Marcal is out for two or three games and see what a show of faith and games against less-than-stellar opposition brings

Ox might be a possibility but I think Soumare is also an option. Nunos comments suggested we aren’t necessarily done after Semedo arrives so here’s hoping.

I'd welcome another midfield option, but we have just signed Vitinha too.