Wolves 0-0 Brighton (Shit we're now 5th) Thread

[jd1981]

Dendoncker isn't good enough for the EPL nor is Vinagre.
That said, even with them in the team you would think we should beat Brighton at home.
The term Big Time Charlies comes to mind.

That’s utter tripe you’re looking for scapegoats, Donk pretty much did what he was supposed to do kept Mooy quiet and BHA whilst had a lot of possession didn’t create much. His performance was no worse than Neves or Moutihno but it’s far easier to pick on Donk.
Vinagre having a rough time but even still will glimpses that he’s more than good enough.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Home draws
Sheffield
Brighton
Burnley
Newcastle
Man Utd
Leicester
Southampton

I would say only Leicester did not thoroughly deserve their point. That is still an issue for us if we really are looking to break into the big 8 or 9 with Leicester and Everton. I don’t see how that cannot be commented on or complained about constructively without being called out as entitled and negative. It is a repeating theme. Brighton predictably did what they do so off we go. A neat two nil win in Greece and this lot is chip paper

Not this again. I listed all the poor dropped points by Chelsea last week and you decided not to reply as it totally destroyed your ‘point’. We aren’t Liverpool.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

Home draws
Sheffield
Brighton
Burnley
Newcastle
Man Utd
Leicester
Southampton

I would say only Leicester did not thoroughly deserve their point. That is still an issue for us if we really are looking to break into the big 8 or 9 with Leicester and Everton. I don’t see how that cannot be commented on or complained about constructively without being called out as entitled and negative. It is a repeating theme. Brighton predictably did what they do so off we go. A neat two nil win in Greece and this lot is chip paper

We have already broken into the top 8 or 9.
Draws against
Man Utd, Leicester and Sheffield Utd are not the issue given that we are directly challenging them for a top 4 place.

If we want 4th we should be beating Brighton, Southampton, and Burnley.
A number of top 6 teams have been held or beaten by Newcastle they really are tough team to beat.

Whilst we could drop a place today we could also realistically still be in 5th.

 

[AndyWolves]

In the Championship/L1/L2 Wolves fans 'always' had a reputation for turning on the team if we were not leading after 20 minutes. I'm guessing the same fickle fans from those days are still going to games now and their feelings that we should convincingly beat every 'small' team have not changed and probably cannot ever change.
There are no small teams in the EPL but perhaps it is a compliment to Nuno and the club that some supporters already see us as so much bigger than the Brightons of this world.

Negativity from some fans is the price of success.

It's always been that way

If there is a game we feel we should win the crowd are flat unless we're 2-0 after 20 minutes

Opposition teams use this as a tactic against us knowing the crowd will get on the players backs. Our fans are indirectly a factor in these off-colour performances imho

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

The crowd agitation was not evident on the TV I would have understood if my coverage was IPTV, but it was Satellite so generally has better sound ETC.
However I will accept those who were there.
It did seem flat, but that's all ways been the case the crowd and the players seem to feed of each other.
A flat atmosphere brings a flat performance
A flat performance brings a flat atmosphere

 

[Kenny]

The atmosphere flipped from nothing to proper getting behind the team. Whenever we showed flashes of what we can do, the crowd was up BUT was not on, was the abuse Vinagre was getting. Simply put, fucking pathetic and probably the first time under Nuno I have seen fans proper going at one of own players. Yes people grumble and moan when things don't happen or a player is a having an off day but the stuff Rubes got, especially from those around me was a disgrace. The worst part came where he collected the ball on the half way line and had 3 Brighton players in front of him, so a run with the ball was a dangerous option, if he loses it we are left with a counter against Saiss on his own out wide. He had zero forward passing options so did what he could, which was a simple pass to Saiss...cue people standing up, shouting, calling him a useless cunt, get the fuck off this pitch etc etc...from that pass, Saiss then proceeds to clobber the ball across the pitch and about 20 yards over the head of Doc and out for a throw in...not a word grumbled at him, no lets nail the kid.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Not this again. I listed all the poor dropped points by Chelsea last week and you decided not to reply as it totally destroyed your ‘point’. We aren’t Liverpool.

OK you chose to do this don't complain

What a load of myopic bollocks. Its another example of rose tinted glasses . Chelsea, a team acknowledged to be in transition, have had some really poor home results this season yet have taken 21 home points to our 22 with a game less played. They are or have been under a transfer ban. Played the kids, are still in the FA cup , still in Europe just and despite a run of bad form sit in fourth place. They rocked us 5 2 at our place and have won 7 times on the road. But their fans still say there is room for improvement. Which is exactly what I have been saying. 7 draws at home is too many IF you are a top side IF those draws are against your rivals or worse.

I cannot see how you can claim to " destroyed a point" when its a point you consistently choose to miss.

To summarise . We are the comeback kings. Its good to have that ability, but better to be ahead first.
We have been poor in probably 5 of those 7 home draws and lucky in at least two.
In those draws our shots on target number is, in the main , woeful showing a lack of alternative creativity.
If we really do want to have a meaningful discussion about breaking into the top six we need to sort out some pretty obvious fallibilities first.

All that said, its fantastic to be where we are. But we haven't made it ,won anything or reached any finals of meaning. We have a really tough tie in Europe and need to focus on that but in no way can we just ignore some of the real issues about the Brighton game. No one deserved more than 6 and there were plenty of 5 and 4 performances on show.

 

[sycophantia]

The atmosphere flipped from nothing to proper getting behind the team. Whenever we showed flashes of what we can do, the crowd was up BUT was not on, was the abuse Vinagre was getting. Simply put, fucking pathetic and probably the first time under Nuno I have seen fans proper going at one of own players. Yes people grumble and moan when things don't happen or a player is a having an off day but the stuff Rubes got, especially from those around me was a disgrace. The worst part came where he collected the ball on the half way line and had 3 Brighton players in front of him, so a run with the ball was a dangerous option, if he loses it we are left with a counter against Saiss on his own out wide. He had zero forward passing options so did what he could, which was a simple pass to Saiss...cue people standing up, shouting, calling him a useless cunt, get the fuck off this pitch etc etc...from that pass, Saiss then proceeds to clobber the ball across the pitch and about 20 yards over the head of Doc and out for a throw in...not a word grumbled at him, no lets nail the kid.

This is what I hate about football fans (not just ours, they're all the same), nothing wrong with a bit of a whinge when things aren't going well in a game but personal abuse aimed at one player is never justified and counter productive.....its why the general public think all football fans are violent morons

 

[Tony Towner]

The atmosphere flipped from nothing to proper getting behind the team. Whenever we showed flashes of what we can do, the crowd was up BUT was not on, was the abuse Vinagre was getting. Simply put, fucking pathetic and probably the first time under Nuno I have seen fans proper going at one of own players. Yes people grumble and moan when things don't happen or a player is a having an off day but the stuff Rubes got, especially from those around me was a disgrace. The worst part came where he collected the ball on the half way line and had 3 Brighton players in front of him, so a run with the ball was a dangerous option, if he loses it we are left with a counter against Saiss on his own out wide. He had zero forward passing options so did what he could, which was a simple pass to Saiss...cue people standing up, shouting, calling him a useless cunt, get the fuck off this pitch etc etc...from that pass, Saiss then proceeds to clobber the ball across the pitch and about 20 yards over the head of Doc and out for a throw in...not a word grumbled at him, no lets nail the kid.

For context that was a minute or so into injury time. As well as the worst stick a player has got under Nuno, I'd also say it's the most 'gerrit forward' the fan base has been as well.

 

[YoungWolf]

Was Vinagre THAT bad anyway? I thought we need to play him higher but he was one of the early threats I felt before we faded away as a team.

We definitely needed the early goal in this case - which I think we set out to get, but when it didn't we looked somewhat short on ideas as Brighton's shape was very compact. We were far too keen to shoot from distance which meant the only two half decent chances I thought we made were the one when Traore played it across the box to Podence and Raul ended up shooting, and Donck's from a very good move right at the end. The latter was the first time we really made any combinations in the final third like that.

 

[sycophantia]

Was Vinagre THAT bad anyway? I thought we need to play him higher but he was one of the early threats I felt before we faded away as a team.

We definitely needed the early goal in this case - which I think we set out to get, but when it didn't we looked somewhat short on ideas as Brighton's shape was very compact. We were far too keen to shoot from distance which meant the only two half decent chances I thought we made were the one when Traore played it across the box to Podence and Raul ended up shooting, and Donck's from a very good move right at the end. The latter was the first time we really made any combinations in the final third like that.

I don't think he had a particularly poor game, no worse than many, but you know how fans are they like to target a scapegoat, thank god MGW wasn't involved

 

[Tony Towner]

Was Vinagre THAT bad anyway? I thought we need to play him higher but he was one of the early threats I felt before we faded away as a team.

He saw a lot of the ball in the first half and most of our good positions ended with him losing it, normally by taking one too many men on. For balance he also created the best as well.

In the second the ball still came to him a lot but he played within himself, either because he knew he'd wasted good positions/Nuno bollocked him/fans groaning when he lost it in the first killed his confidence.

I didn't hear anything ott in the first half, just general disappointment when a good position broke down. It gradually got worse in the second culminating in the moment Kenny mentioned.

Ironically if he'd done in the first half what he was doing in the second when he was higher up the pitch (laying the ball off), all would have been fine.

 

[Kenny]

For context that was a minute or so into injury time. As well as the worst stick a player has got under Nuno, I'd also say it's the most 'gerrit forward' the fan base has been as well.

The bit I am talking about came when Jota was still on the pitch. If he had made a run out wide, then Vinagre would have had a better option.

Apart from a couple of moments he was poor yesterday but nothing that justified the abuse.

 

[StuardoWulf]

The crowd agitation was not evident on the TV I would have understood if my coverage was IPTV, but it was Satellite so generally has better sound ETC.
However I will accept those who were there.
It did seem flat, but that's all ways been the case the crowd and the players seem to feed of each other.
A flat atmosphere brings a flat performance
A flat performance brings a flat atmosphere

Well as somebody who was there I can tell you that the flat atmosphere reported on here is somewhat exaggerated.

I was in S4 and although the game was tedious we still gave it a go and tried to get the team going.

There was whining around the ground and I said to my brother I can see the confidence draining from Ruben. He replied (not one for understating it) "we should go back down to League 1 so these fuckers never turn up again"

So it was a bit of both really.

As for the game Why do we change our formation to nullify Brighton. They are no longer a "park the bus team" they are a team who like to play but are shit, 343 and we murder 'em. (well maybe)

IMO Traore for Donk for the last 20 mins and we might win.

Overall we are in a good position, we've played a lot of games, but the league is super tight 4 points above 11th.

IT AYE THE END OF THE WORLD

 

[Dire Wolf]

I think most rational expect the team drop points along the way and understand that it might even be against teams we feel we should beat. But isn't that the frustration? That we know we are better than teams like Brighton? Because we are, we really are, so when the team plays poorly, which we definitely did yesterday, it is doubly disappointing because it is an opportunity missed. And yes, I get that all teams miss those opportunities, but come on, that does NOT lessen the frustration and disappointment. In fact it makes it worse in some respects because it means we haven't capitalised on other teams off days. Nobody in the right mind expects every performance to be brilliant, but poor performances from the entire team after a full week of rest and preparation are inexplicable and pretty inexcusable really.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

Well as somebody who was there I can tell you that the flat atmosphere reported on here is somewhat exaggerated.

I was in S4 and although the game was tedious we still gave it a go and tried to get the team going.

There was whining around the ground and I said to my brother I can see the confidence draining from Ruben. He replied (not one for understating it) "we should go back down to League 1 so these fuckers never turn up again"

So it was a bit of both really.

As for the game Why do we change our formation to nullify Brighton. They are no longer a "park the bus team" they are a team who like to play but are shit, 343 and we murder 'em. (well maybe)

IMO Traore for Donk for the last 20 mins and we might win.

Overall we are in a good position, we've played a lot of games, but the league is super tight 4 points above 11th.

IT AYE THE END OF THE WORLD

Cheers, atmosphere came over somewhat flat on TV it was the main game on Bein 11so was my main game.

Nuno makes very few mistakes, I can see where Traore was on the bench.

Yesterday was very much the players that were flat maybe Neto in a central role would have worked

 

[Kenny]

I think most rational expect the team drop points along the way and understand that it might even be against teams we feel we should beat. But isn't that the frustration? That we know we are better than teams like Brighton? Because we are, we really are, so when the team plays poorly, which we definitely did yesterday, it is doubly disappointing because it is an opportunity missed. And yes, I get that all teams miss those opportunities, but come on, that does NOT lessen the frustration and disappointment. In fact it makes it worse in some respects because it means we haven't capitalised on other teams off days.

Huge difference in frustration and singling out 1 player to call all the cunts under the sun though. In general the crowd beat what was being put in on the pitch but lets not go back down the road of deciding 1 player is the reason for a crap performance and then jumping on his back when something doesn't happen for him.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Huge difference in frustration and singling out 1 player to call all the cunts under the sun though. In general the crowd beat what was being put in on the pitch but lets not go back down the road of deciding 1 player is the reason for a crap performance and then jumping on his back when something doesn't happen for him.

I don't recall doing that. And I never made excuses for those who did.

 

[Tony Towner]

As for the game Why do we change our formation to nullify Brighton. They are no longer a "park the bus team" they are a team who like to play but are shit, 343 and we murder 'em. (well maybe)

Nuno felt we surrendered the midfield to them in the away game, so changed the formation for the home one, just as he did against Norwich who also like to play and that worked. I do however understand the 'let them worry about us' mentality.

 

[arklowolf]

That’s utter tripe you’re looking for scapegoats, Donk pretty much did what he was supposed to do kept Mooy quiet and BHA whilst had a lot of possession didn’t create much. His performance was no worse than Neves or Moutihno but it’s far easier to pick on Donk.
Vinagre having a rough time but even still will glimpses that he’s more than good enough.

Fair enough we are all entitled to our opinions.
I wasn't talking about yesterdays game as I haven't seen any of it.
What I was trying to say was that I don't think either of them are top drawer PL players.
I stuck up for Doherty and Jota when they were having poor spells and others on here were slagging them.
I pointed out that Traore and Neto were top quality before either of them had hardly played.
I don't boo players.
I hope both Vinagre and Donk prove me wrong, but personally I don't think either of them have got the potential to be anything more than run of the mill squad players.