Winter Improvement Thread (aka Winter Squad Weakening Thread and TWF Suicide Watch)

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I know it was a good while back but Jason Roberts is the one that niggles me. He couldn't even get a game for us.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Off the top of my head here are some who were only ok for us at best who did well after moving and thats only this century!

Surman
Shackell
Vokes
Friend
Mulgrew
Miller
Ingarmarsson
Kuszchak

You could argue Berra has done better for Ipswich as he is more consistent and scored more goals, De Vries as he is now the number 1, Karl Henry at QPR? maybe him too. Add Lee Naylor to the list and you hve a team Albeit a 3 5 2 team!

De Vries
Naylor Shackell Berra Ingarmarsson Friend

Mulgrew Henry Surman

Vokes Miller

PMSL

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

You can't include Miller surely? He was decent enough when with us and I don't remember him going on to be any better elsewhere. In fact, apart from his spell at Rangers, his best goalscoring years were probably with us.

 

[Johnny75]

Off the top of my head here are some who were only ok for us at best who did well after moving and thats only this century!

Surman
Shackell
Vokes
Friend
Mulgrew
Miller
Ingarmarsson
Kuszchak

You could argue Berra has done better for Ipswich as he is more consistent and scored more goals, De Vries as he is now the number 1, Karl Henry at QPR? maybe him too.

What a bizarre list. Only Mulgrew of those players have achieved more or played at a higher level than they did for Wolves at that stage of their career. Saying they did well is crackers and based on what?

Edit: Ingarmarsson did well for Reading.

 

[Langers]

Off the top of my head here are some who were only ok for us at best who did well after moving and thats only this century!

Surman
Shackell
Vokes
Friend
Mulgrew
Miller
Ingarmarsson
Kuszchak

You could argue Berra has done better for Ipswich as he is more consistent and scored more goals, De Vries as he is now the number 1, Karl Henry at QPR? maybe him too. Add Lee Naylor to the list and you hve a team Albeit a 3 5 2 team!

De Vries
Naylor Shackell Berra Ingarmarsson Friend

Mulgrew Henry Surman

Vokes Miller

PMSL

I'd probably agree with Vokes and Mulgrew from that list, probably Ingimarsson too.

With Vokes, I think promotion came at the wrong time for his development with us, and I don't blame the club or the player for him leaving when he did. I'm pleased he's gone on to do well elsewhere.

Mulgrew - never really got a look in, not sure if he settled but that happens sometimes.

Otherwise, I can't agree with you.

 

[Nando]

KJ's comments today just sound like we're inviting bids for Benik. Wouldn't surprise me if he's doing what he did with Griffiths and he'll be off soon.

Couldn't blame him for wanting to go.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I dunno, it's more or less exactly what he said every 3-4 months about Sako.

 

[Jolemai]

KJ's comments today just sound like we're inviting bids for Benik. Wouldn't surprise me if he's doing what he did with Griffiths and he'll be off soon.

Couldn't blame him for wanting to go.

Link?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I'd probably agree with Vokes and Mulgrew from that list, probably Ingimarsson too.

With Vokes, I think promotion came at the wrong time for his development with us, and I don't blame the club or the player for him leaving when he did. I'm pleased he's gone on to do well elsewhere.

Mulgrew - never really got a look in, not sure if he settled but that happens sometimes.

Otherwise, I can't agree with you.

Oh come on George friend couldn't get a game here and is a real fixture in a table topping side, Kuszchak is confirmed number one while a deputy at best here, De vries the same, Miller has goals 50 in 128 for wolves but 59 in 103 for Rangers, Vokes 27 in 72 for Burnley, better than the 6 he got here and was never really used, Shackell has been promoted to the premier league and a pretty much ever present after being lumbered a donkey here, Surman premier league regular and better for both Norwich and Bournemouth than us. Ingamarrson 251 apps and 11 goals for Reading. Nah- you cant see the wood from the trees guys and hate it if I have a case!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Even if we very generously accepted your 11 (with Lee Naylor at right wing back, brilliant) then that's still a tiny proportion of all the players we've sold or released in the last dozen years. They are the exception, not the rule. It's the same kind of bollocks myth as "our ex-players always score against us" or "we always end a team's bad run".

 

[So Long Architect]

Oh come on George friend couldn't get a game here and is a real fixture in a table topping side, Kuszchak is confirmed number one while a deputy at best here, De vries the same, Miller has goals 50 in 128 for wolves but 59 in 103 for Rangers, Vokes 27 in 72 for Burnley, better than the 6 he got here and was never really used, Shackell has been promoted to the premier league and a pretty much ever present after being lumbered a donkey here, Surman premier league regular and better for both Norwich and Bournemouth than us. Ingamarrson 251 apps and 11 goals for Reading. Nah- you cant see the wood from the trees guys and hate it if I have a case!

I don't follow things closely enough to know whether your argument about particular players stacks up, but surely fans of every club could produce a long list of players who did better at other clubs than they did for them. It's the nature of transfers, surely? Are you sure we're worse for it than anyone else or is it just that, understandably, your focus is on us?

 

[Nando]

George Friend couldn't get a game 7 years ago when we took the league to pieces. Like Vokes he was a prospect when we signed him but neither were Premier League quality at that time. I'm not quite sure what we should have done? Play them week in week out because in 7 years time they'll both be playing for top end Championship clubs? Yeh, nice one.

Your complete lack of context makes your argument look ridiculous.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

His argument for DDV is bollocks as he's played about 20 odd league games in 3 seasons for Forest. I'm still not having Miller either. I don't care if he scored slightly more goals in a worse league for Rangers, you can't say he vastly improved after leaving us. It's not as if he wasn't used here either, he was one of our main strikers who played over 100 games!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

---------------Postma--------------------

Halford----Johnson----Mouyokolo----Elokobi

Hunt-------Castillo----Olofinjana-----R Ricketts

------------Eastwood---Nouble-----------------

Look at that, conclusive proof that ALL our ex-players are a load of shite when they leave us. Fact.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Sami Al-Jaber featured in 2 World Cups after we let him go. We missed a trick there. What were we thinking??

 

[Parkins left foot]

---------------Postma--------------------

Halford----Johnson----Mouyokolo----Elokobi

Hunt-------Castillo----Olofinjana-----R Ricketts

------------Eastwood---Nouble-----------------

Look at that, conclusive proof that ALL our ex-players are a load of shite when they leave us. Fact.

Frightening looking team that! Not sure even D'S would have put that Lineup out - then again! !!?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Even if we very generously accepted your 11 (with Lee Naylor at right wing back, brilliant) then that's still a tiny proportion of all the players we've sold or released in the last dozen years. They are the exception, not the rule. It's the same kind of bollocks myth as "our ex-players always score against us" or "we always end a team's bad run".

DW dont be so dismissive or rude. The question was asked can I name players who have done better after they left us. I did. You dont like it or dont agree fine. You are the expert but youre not always right. These players have done better for clubs after they left us. RVLP has never scored from 30 yards for us. He looks a lot better in a Brighton shirt in one game than he has for the majority of games for us. You and fallacies. Sometimes you lot just want to pick a fight methinks

 

[North West Wanderer]

Can't be who I think it is. He has "zero end product", according to our fans...

He's been absolute garbage here.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

DW dont be so dismissive or rude. The question was asked can I name players who have done better after they left us. I did.

No, you said it happens to "so many" players as if it's a really common occurence, or there's some kind of weird hex on players who play for our club. Overwhelmingly that is quite obviously not the case, for every player that goes on to do better elsewhere (which often is a subjective thing anyway) there are at least 10 others that don't do anything. You've picked out 11 and at least half of them are very dubious cases for your argument. I mean picking out keepers who we quite obviously signed to be back up to the existing first choice, they leave after a period sitting on our bench and start playing regularly for someone else - I'm not sure what the case is there? We can only pick one keeper at a time.

 

[Tony Towner]

Off the top of my head here are some who were only ok for us at best who did well after moving and thats only this century!

Surman
Shackell
Vokes
Friend
Mulgrew
Miller
Ingarmarsson
Kuszchak

You could argue Berra has done better for Ipswich as he is more consistent and scored more goals, De Vries as he is now the number 1, Karl Henry at QPR? maybe him too. Add Lee Naylor to the list and you hve a team Albeit a 3 5 2 team!

De Vries
Naylor Shackell Berra Ingarmarsson Friend

Mulgrew Henry Surman

Vokes Miller

PMSL

Ok, I'll play
De Vries - sub in the main for us. Sub for them until this season and they couldn't sign anyone else due to FPP. He wouldn't get into our side now or at anytime since he left

Naylor - First choice when he left and moved upwards...wouldn't be the case now in my view. I will ignore the right back piece

Ingamarrson - Left 12? Years ago and not a left back. As a centre half agreed and Friend agreed although he was young when he left and despite popular belief Ward was a decent option at left back at that point


Shackell - Agreed

Berra - Played 3 seasons for us in the Prem, now in the Champ for a reasonable team, hardly progression

Mulgrew - See generic pub league comment, but never settled down South and was desperate to go back up North. I agree he wasn't really given a chance. Left back or centre half rather than left midfielder

Henry - Regressed at Wolves, continued to regress since including this season

Surman - Fits into Bournemouth's system, but agreed

Vokes - Maybe, but 22 when he left here and isn't a first choice for Burnley now

Miller - not going to dignify this one, it's just bollocks.