Winter Improvement Thread (aka Winter Squad Weakening Thread and TWF Suicide Watch)

[SouthWestWolf]

Imagine having the pressure of trying to fill Bony's place.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

If I were the Swansea manager (who isn't going to be Garry Monk by the looks of things) that's exactly who I'd buy. Would fit their system perfectly.

I don't see him working at Swansea personally, as much as he likes to fanny around thinking he's a number 10 I've never seen much to suggest he can actually link play to any great effect.

I think he's much better just playing off the last man, using his pace to get in behind and apply the finishing touch. I think a counter attacking team would suit him better, likely to have opponents pushed well up the pitch leaving plenty of space for him to exploit.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Imagine having the pressure of trying to fill Bony's place.

He's only got to be better than Gomis, which is something the average housebrick could manage let alone Benik Afobe. Again though I just don't see it happening in January. We were steadfast in turning down all bids for him in the summer, some in excess of eight figures - there's no way we will have let the price drop substantially and people are getting carried away by a bit of a throwaway comment from Jez which is as much about the club wanting to be patted on the back for holding onto him rather than signalling our imminent intent to sell him.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't see him working at Swansea personally, as much as he likes to fanny around thinking he's a number 10 I've never seen much to suggest he can actually link play to any great effect.

I think he's much better just playing off the last man, using his pace to get in behind and apply the finishing touch. I think a counter attacking team would suit him better, likely to have opponents pushed well up the pitch leaving plenty of space for him to exploit.

I wouldn't have him as a #10 at Swansea, he'd lead the line. Much like he did for McDons. He's good as a front man as you've said and Swansea have plenty of pace and guile to get him the ball. Swansea's biggest problem seems to be their forwards are as mobile as Danny Batth.

 

[nimrod]

He's only got to be better than Gomis, which is something the average housebrick could manage let alone Benik Afobe. Again though I just don't see it happening in January. We were steadfast in turning down all bids for him in the summer, some in excess of eight figures - there's no way we will have let the price drop substantially and people are getting carried away by a bit of a throwaway comment from Jez which is as much about the club wanting to be patted on the back for holding onto him rather than signalling our imminent intent to sell him.

this makes sense to me subject to the club not deciding they would need the cash to prioritise other areas. that would presume we need that level of cash (ie from an afobe sale) which i also doubt we'd achieve value for money from in this transfer window.

the jez comment was silly though sort of in keeping with his logic. he could have simply said that regardless of outside interest we aim to keep hold of our best players, such as benik, and we don't always get credit for this. instead it's become a cash v team thing.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I wouldn't have him as a #10 at Swansea, he'd lead the line. Much like he did for McDons. He's good as a front man as you've said and Swansea have plenty of pace and guile to get him the ball. Swansea's biggest problem seems to be their forwards are as mobile as Danny Batth.

Bit of a blurry explanation from me there.

Not saying I'd play him or see him as a number 10 at Swansea but during his dalliances with the role at Wolves his link play seems extremely limited, he's very much the end point of attacks rather than the starting point. Even playing as a number 9 for Swansea I think that lack of ability to link the play would leave them weaker as a team, Bony, Michu and even Graham before that all provided a good platform to build attacks from, they weren't merely there to get on the end of things and stick it in the net.

Perhaps he could grow into the role but at the moment I think he's a good way short for a team playing that way.

 

[slink]

I think Afobe could do that, not in a Bony, Michu or Graham kind of way but he can hold the ball up and link it's just that our players around him aren't good enough and their movement is poor.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Benik did a manful job against Burnley in particular in holding the ball up, often against two centre halves. Unfortunately Edwards was constantly 30 yards away from him while he was doing that so his good play came to nothing. You wouldn't say it's his primary strength but he can do it.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

My biggest concern is that SM will not put any money in or there will be very limited funds available for this window. Then we will have a bang average or poor January form wise resulting in our annual FA cup exit if we get past West Ham to Northampton or similar and on 31st Jan Norwich, Swansea or similar come knocking with 8 million or so and Benik says yes. Wolves look at it as great business and gives us the funds to add to the squad..... come july. SM rubs his hands as the accounts look even better and he and JM get a dividend or whatever it is they get.

Let us see on 1st Feb how close that one pans out. I would really really like to be completely wide of the mark.

 

[Johnny75]

Why do football fans think the owner of their club has to put money in to buy players?

Most clubs run on a budget and that will be set by income generated. As far as I know SM hasn't put in any more equity into the club other than his initial outlay of £30m all those years ago, so why do Wolves fans think this is going to change now?

Perhaps there are directors loans we're not privy too or somebody with a better handle on the accounts can point an increased pot of funding to the club to me.

Most clubs live within their means. Of course this gets skewed by clubs like Chelsea and Citeh but Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Soton all live within their means and only 'Boro and Derby have spent money they haven't generated themselves.

Why fans think owners need to constantly put their hand in their pocket is beyond me.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Most clubs live within their means. Of course this gets skewed by clubs like Chelsea and Citeh but Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Soton all live within their means and only 'Boro and Derby have spent money they haven't generated themselves.

Why fans think owners need to constantly put their hand in their pocket is beyond me.

Hogwash with respect Palace Swansea Stoke and Southampton all spent millions to get out of this championship and then balanced the books or at least tried too when in the prem with varying success. We are one of 4 clubs( I believe) in profit in the championship- Clap clap we are a well run club that does not live beyond its means. ie we are happy and the owner is happy with championship football. We may as well shut the forum down if we all think that is satisfactory when feckin Bournemouth, Norwich etc are playing in the premier and Leicester are top of the league.

Boro and Derby to go up then and reap the rewards.

And in answer to the last point because the owner wants their team to play at the highest level and generate the most money? There is 138million difference in being a championship club to being a premier club at the moment. If SM chucked 40 million to get promotion he would still be quids in. We need a new owner to have the ability to speculate to accumulate.

This season is a waste

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Hogwash with respect Palace Swansea Stoke and Southampton all spent millions to get out of this championship and then balanced the books or at least tried too when in the prem with varying success.

Nope, none of them did. Not even close.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Nope, none of them did. Not even close.

On the other hand Wolves did spend millions getting out of the Championship, spent a few years in the Premier League spending very little money and it is unlikely that Morgan will see any significant return on his initial outlay.

The argument that owners can get wealthy owing a football club doesn't hold much water either.

It was poor decision making more than lack of investment that are the cause of Wolves current woes - and no matter how much money you throw at it, a handful of poor decisions can easily negate any advantages money might offer.

 

[Tony Towner]

Weren't we something like the 6th top net spenders during our time in the PL? The issue was quality and wages, not investment in transfers. £2m on crap here, £2m on crap there

 

[Norman Deeley]

On the other hand Wolves did spend millions getting out of the Championship, spent a few years in the Premier League spending very little money and it is unlikely that Morgan will see any significant return on his initial outlay.

The argument that owners can get wealthy owing a football club doesn't hold much water either.

It was poor decision making more than lack of investment that are the cause of Wolves current woes - and no matter how much money you throw at it, a handful of poor decisions can easily negate any advantages money might offer.

Actually the new TV deal means that you will be able to make significant money owning a club.American hedge fund quoted recently (Guardian, i think) saying "it will be very hard not to make money in the Premiership."

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Nope, none of them did. Not even close.

Youre right. I hang my head. I looked at the years they were promoted but the spend included their first few months in the premier and business done in the close season after promotion. Sorry. Johnny 75 sorry to you 2. Its not hogwash.

At championship level it is about both the quality and the depth of squad. I would argue that all the clubs below strengthened their squad considerably in the seasons of their promotion and the previous.

Southampton in each of thoses seasons they signed 7 new players including Fox and Forte- 14 signings

Swansea signed 5 players including Sinclair and Luke Moore in their promotion season and 9 the year before including Dyer and Dobbie- 14 signings

Palace 9 in their promotion year including Bolasie and 7 the previous year including Murray- 16 signings

We bought 6 players last year and 3 this.That included Afobe.-9 signings

The big difference however is the money available to clubs on promotion now is 2 or 3 times more than it was then . Owners do not get wealthy from owning football clubs alone however you can make very very good returns as Southampton, Swansea, Stoke, Palace accounts show. Latest accounts for 2013-14 show

Southampton turnover 106 million profit 29 million Palace 90million -profit 23 million Stoke 98 million- profit 4 million Swansea 98 million profit 1 million.

So they have signed players, paid the wages,made the profit and consolidated. To do the same now I truly belive does require investment in quality and qauntity. The depth of squad did us last year and both quality and depth is doing us this.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Actually the new TV deal means that you will be able to make significant money owning a club.American hedge fund quoted recently (Guardian, i think) saying "it will be very hard not to make money in the Premiership."

The Premier League clubs made a profit in 2013-14, the first time since 1999 and it is said that the FPP rules were a main factor, the same FPP rules that they are now proposing to relax. It us players who will make money - any owner who tries to profit from football will find themselves deeply unpopular with their supporters unless they are winning trophies while making that profit.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

any owner who tries to profit from football will find themselves deeply unpopular with their supporters unless they are winning trophies while making that profit.

This is correct. The Glazers have taken hundreds of millions out of Man Utd since they took over but they got away with it because the club kept winning things. Doesn't look so flash now when they compare their squad with the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern and wonder what that money could have bought.

Look at the players mid-range PL clubs bought this summer; Cabaye, A Ayew, Shaqiri, Payet, Wijnaldum. That's where a huge chunk of the money will go, clubs like that will be able to sign players who were out of reach five years ago in terms of profile. Any owner refusing to engage in that market because they're going to take their share of the money personally will get strung up.

 

[Johnny75]

Nope, none of them did. Not even close.

Indeed, the spending during the promotion season, including net spend, maximum player purchase and max player sale

Palace: £1.3m (net spend (+£14.8m; Darcy Blake £350K purchase; Zaha £15m sold)
S'ton: £11.5m (net spend (+£0.8m; Jay-Rod £6m purchase; Alex O-C £12m sold)
Swansea: £5.25m (net spend (-£5.25m; Danny Graham £3.5m; Free signings out £0)
Stoke: £4.8m (net spend (+£220K; Leon Cort £1.2m purchase; Danny Higginbotham £2.5m sold)

So 3 out of those 4 clubs have a net gain on transfers, with Palace laughably spending the same price as Nathan Byrne. Swansea spent over £5m but in their next season spent less than that in total. Soton did spend a lot but having sold Theo Walcott, Gareth Bale and Alex Oxlade Chaberlain for a combined £26m in the 5 years prior to promotion I think they're in the + column by a lot.

As TSB says it's not about how much you spend but who you spend it on.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Indeed, the spending during the promotion season, including net spend, maximum player purchase and max player sale

Palace: £1.3m (net spend (+£14.8m; Darcy Blake £350K purchase; Zaha £15m sold)
S'ton: £11.5m (net spend (+£0.8m; Jay-Rod £6m purchase; Alex O-C £12m sold)
Swansea: £5.25m (net spend (-£5.25m; Danny Graham £3.5m; Free signings out £0)
Stoke: £4.8m (net spend (+£220K; Leon Cort £1.2m purchase; Danny Higginbotham £2.5m sold)

So 3 out of those 4 clubs have a net gain on transfers, with Palace laughably spending the same price as Nathan Byrne. Swansea spent over £5m but in their next season spent less than that in total. Soton did spend a lot but having sold Theo Walcott, Gareth Bale and Alex Oxlade Chaberlain for a combined £26m in the 5 years prior to promotion I think they're in the + column by a lot.

As TSB says it's not about how much you spend but who you spend it on.

The point is though that with premier football their turnpver is up and they are all making a profit. Surely as we already are in the black that should be the cue to speculate to accumulate for any owner?

We also dont know the wages their free signings were on but I would guess higher than ours