Trump

[Alan]

Let's not forget that Crimea VOTED to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian Federation. It wasn't close to a hostile takeover.

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[MARKakaJIM]

Let's not forget that Crimea VOTED to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian Federation. It wasn't close to a hostile takeover.

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It wasn't an official vote though was it? Didn't the people of Crimea just decide to display their feelings through a vote rather than anything the Ukrainian government had proposed, so it might not have been hostile to the general population but government to government it certainly was.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Russia had already invaded Crimea when the vote took place. The Ukrainian government certainly didn't sanction a referendum or anything :icon_lol:

 

[leedswolf]

Annexit means Annexit?

 

[Alan]

Russia had already invaded Crimea when the vote took place. The Ukrainian government certainly didn't sanction a referendum or anything :icon_lol:

Aye, you could certainly argue that the vote was "encouraged" by Russian military forces, but to discount the vote because the Ukrainian government didn't sanction it would be like pretending the American Civil War didn't happen because state secession was illegal.

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[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, but let's say the people of Berwick wanted to re-join Scotland (quite a lot of them do anyway, but let's pretend it's like a 90%+ majority). If Nicola Sturgeon decided to invade the town and then hold a vote on what they wanted to happen, and it turned out to be pro-Scotland, I don't think that would really be fair game. You can't unilaterally seize territory that you fancy then hold your own vote on what to do :icon_lol: Well you can if you like if you fancy dealing with the repercussions, but you certainly can't pretend that's it's all fine because that's the will of the people.

Even if the people of the Falklands seriously wanted to become part of Argentina - which they don't - Argentina can't just invade the islands and then take it from there. Or Gibraltar and Spain.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Trying to explain the Falklands to an American is a hard road...

They were just about barely neutral there.

 

[lemonjelly]

Apparently u2 have delayed the release of their new album as a result of trump winning the election.
Silver linings and all that.

 

[Alan]

I was under the impression that Russia's movement into Crimea was not comparable to a hostile invasion?

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[Deutsch Wolf]

It was sovereign Ukrainian territory and Russia effectively annexed it. I'm not sure what else it could be described as tbf.

 

[Alan]

IMO invasion implies use of force, as if the Russians marched in and declared "this is ours now". But it isn't nearly that simple as Crimeans identify as Russian more often than Ukrainian and that vote was, if not legally binding, a show of public support for being annexed.

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[Deutsch Wolf]

Well Russian troops went in to Crimea, seized Government buildings and raised the Russian flag over them, occupied airports and military bases...what else is it if it's not taking territory by force?

The population might very well be pro-Russian but that's not enough to make it all ok. The UN recognises it as illegal for a start.

 

[arklowolf]

Yeah, but let's say the people of Berwick wanted to re-join Scotland (quite a lot of them do anyway, but let's pretend it's like a 90%+ majority). If Nicola Sturgeon decided to invade the town and then hold a vote on what they wanted to happen, and it turned out to be pro-Scotland, I don't think that would really be fair game. You can't unilaterally seize territory that you fancy then hold your own vote on what to do :icon_lol: Well you can if you like if you fancy dealing with the repercussions, but you certainly can't pretend that's it's all fine because that's the will of the people.

Even if the people of the Falklands seriously wanted to become part of Argentina - which they don't - Argentina can't just invade the islands and then take it from there. Or Gibraltar and Spain.

Brummies annexed Tamworth. Bastards.

 

[arklowolf]

George Galloway's recent video message well worth a watch if you can find it. Can't paste a link from my phone.

 

[arklowolf]

The point being, which is my belief, Trump will do well if he isn't assassinated.

 

[Alan]

The point being, which is my belief, Trump will do well if he isn't assassinated.

He'll be impeached long before that. The Secret Service have presidential protection down to a science.

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[Paddingtonwolf]

Ah yes - so they could very easily leave a deliberate hole.

There won't so much be a man on the grassy knoll as the supporting cast of ben hur.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Thats all well and good but to be honest I get the feeling his replacement might be nearly as bad.

 

[leedswolf]

Ah yes - so they could very easily leave a deliberate hole.

There won't so much be a man on the grassy knoll as the supporting cast of ben hur.

A sort of Praetorian Guard Caligula style hatchet job.

 

[The Bear]