The Velotard Thread.

[Kenny]

It's a decent idea, imo. Although massively undermined by the horrendous lack of cycling infrastructure in the Midlands, at least.

The amount of drivers who simply don't know how to deal with cyclists is shocking, and that's before you try and tackle poor driving/speeding/mobile phone use etc in general. So anything to raise some awareness of that should be encouraged.

Flip side of that is some cyclists need to sort their shit out. The other night coming back from the Vets had a cyclist (brilliantly wearing all black and no lights on the bike) came through a red light and just missed us as we pulled out. He then proceeded down the road and then suddenly slowed and swung across the road and cycled towards the cars on the other side before narrowling avoiding someone at a junction.

 

[machin05]

Flip side of that is some cyclists need to sort their shit out. The other night coming back from the Vets had a cyclist (brilliantly wearing all black and no lights on the bike) came through a red light and just missed us as we pulled out. He then proceeded down the road and then suddenly slowed and swung across the road and cycled towards the cars on the other side before narrowling avoiding someone at a junction.

I think dangerous driving is more of an issue than annoying cyclists, tbh.

 

[machin05]

But that's the national psyche on the issue, I guess.

 

[Johnny75]

I think dangerous driving is more of an issue than annoying cyclists, tbh.

Both should be dealt with as bad cycling habits can just as easily cause death as dangerous driving.

 

[machin05]

Not defending those particular actions, at all by the way. But you can't use it as a reason to not make the roads safer and more encouraging for people who may want to leave there cars behind and explore other modes of transport.

 

[machin05]

Both should be dealt with as bad cycling habits can just as easily cause death as dangerous driving.

Not sure the stats back that up.

 

[machin05]

If a car driver had displayed the same behaviour (running reds, no lights etc.) I think it'd have been a whole lot more dangerous.

 

[Kenny]

I think dangerous driving is more of an issue than annoying cyclists, tbh.

Not going to disagree but this guy wasn't an annoying cyclist he was a danger. In the short time I could see him, he almost hit 5 cars

 

[Johnny75]

Not sure the stats back that up.

So you think bad cyclist behaviour should be tolerated?

And you don't think bad behaviour can cause death?

This isn't a what about... this is about poor behaviour. Both should be punished.

 

[SLA]

So you think bad cyclist behaviour should be tolerated?

And you don't think bad behaviour can cause death?

This isn't a what about... this is about poor behaviour. Both should be punished.

I get what you're saying but surely it's not really comparable. The risk of death from cycling is *largely* to the cyclist themselves - there aren't that many examples of cyclist killing people, not when you compare them to motorists. I'm speaking as a member of both clubs.

 

[Johnny75]

I get what you're saying but surely it's not really comparable. The risk of death from cycling is *largely* to the cyclist themselves - there aren't that many examples of cyclist killing people, not when you compare them to motorists. I'm speaking as a member of both clubs.

I don't disagree with your point, I do find the adversarial nature of cyclist v motorist an unnecessary obstacle to road safety from both sides.

 

[SLA]

I don't disagree with your point, I do find the adversarial nature of cyclist v motorist an unnecessary obstacle to road safety from both sides.

Yeah, can't disagree with that. Oh to live in a land of sensible town planning (starting about 50 years ago) where cyclists are separated from motorists.

 

[machin05]

I don't disagree with your point, I do find the adversarial nature of cyclist v motorist an unnecessary obstacle to road safety from both sides.

The problem is you can't bring up road safety for cyclists without someone saying, "errr what about bad cyclists". It's that behaviour/attitude that creates far more cars vs bikes adversary than the other way around, imo. It kills progress dead.

It's the whole "but, Labour" argument the Tories peddle (pun intended) time after time.

 

[machin05]

So you think bad cyclist behaviour should be tolerated?

And you don't think bad behaviour can cause death?

This isn't a what about... this is about poor behaviour. Both should be punished.

That's not what I said. In extreme and rare cases, poor cyclist behaviour can cause death. Nowhere near on the scale of poor driving though.

My overriding point though is this:
I believe I am a good cyclist, I have reflective stripes on my cycling wear, I always wear a helmet, I have two sets of lights, I abide the laws of the road (including red lights!). However, I see poor drivers ALL THE TIME - at nearly every junction or traffic jam I get boxed in, I get aggression for adopting a primary road position when it's undoubtedly the safest thing to do, I get close passed by vans, lorries and cars multiple times every journey, I see people on their mobile phones every other vehicle, I get pulled out on, I get cut in front of. A lot of that is caused simply by drivers not knowing how to safely deal with cyclists on the road. Yet we shouldn't be looking at creating a safer environment for everyone, because you saw a bad cyclist go through a red light. We should punish those pesky cyclists first and foremost??

 

[Johnny75]

The problem is you can't bring up road safety for cyclists without someone saying, "errr what about bad cyclists". It's that behaviour/attitude that creates far more cars vs bikes adversary than the other way around, imo. It kills progress dead.

It's the whole "but, Labour" argument the Tories peddle (pun intended) time after time.

Why shouldn't bad cycling be brought up? To stick your head in the sand and say it blocks progress is frustrating. And I say that as a member of both clubs. As a cyclist I'm embarrassed by some of the behaviour I see from other cyclists. I was in London yesterday and the flagrant red light jumping and lack of awareness of pedestrians does nothing for the cyclists image. And it was very dangerous.

 

[Johnny75]

That's not what I said. In extreme and rare cases, poor cyclist behaviour can cause death. Nowhere near on the scale of poor driving though.

My overriding point though is this:
I believe I am a good cyclist, I have reflective stripes on my cycling wear, I always wear a helmet, I have two sets of lights, I abide the laws of the road (including red lights!). However, I see poor drivers ALL THE TIME - at nearly every junction or traffic jam I get boxed in, I get aggression for adopting a primary road position when it's undoubtedly the safest thing to do, I get close passed by vans, lorries and cars multiple times every journey, I see people on their mobile phones every other vehicle, I get pulled out on, I get cut in front of.

Really? I don't, you sure that's not an exaggeration?

A lot of that is caused simply by drivers not knowing how to safely deal with cyclists on the road. Yet we shouldn't be looking at creating a safer environment for everyone, because you saw a bad cyclist go through a red light. We should punish those pesky cyclists first and foremost??

Who said we shouldn't be looking for a safer environment to travel? SLA has even stated as much.

And why shouldn't we punish bad cycling? We should punish ALL bad behaviour and allowing cyclists to get away with it is as adversarial a statement as I can think of. You are basically saying the cyclists are better than motorists no matter if they behave badly. That kind of stance does not help.

 

[machin05]

The original post is about the idea of bringing in awareness courses for drivers in order to make roads safer and provide discounts for drivers! To oppose that idea with the argument that there are also bad cyclists is far more head-in-the-sand than anything I've said.

 

[SLA]

Really? I don't, you sure that's not an exaggeration?



Who said we shouldn't be looking for a safer environment to travel? SLA has even stated as much.

And why shouldn't we punish bad cycling? We should punish ALL bad behaviour and allowing cyclists to get away with it is as adversarial a statement as I can think of. You are basically saying the cyclists are better than motorists no matter if they behave badly. That kind of stance does not help.

.
But the implication here is that they're equally bad, which clearly they're not. It's like saying shoplifting should be given the same attention as burglary. Both are clearly wrong and should be dealt with, but no-one would suggest they should command equal amounts of police attention.

 

[machin05]

And at no point have I said bad cycling should go unpunished. It's just not relevant to the original point, deflects from the more important issue and cements the whole "car is king" mindset.

 

[Kenny]

So anyway...cheaper insurance

What % off would make you take up the option of doing an awareness course?