The Road to Russia 2018

[Alan]

Then they had their chance and they blew it. Tough shit.

And if you think that last comment was an insult you ought to turn off your profanity filter.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

CONCACAF qualifying is fucking shit.

Situation regarding the playoffs now is:

Wales will only go through with a draw if Ukraine vs Croatia is also a draw - small chance they won't even have that if Croatia manage to draw AND score two more goals than Wales on the night in the process. Either of those two, as well as Wales/Ireland, are definitely through with a win (Slovakia will miss out in that case).

Netherlands need to beat Sweden 7-0 or better to overhaul them.

Norn Iron are definitely through, so are Denmark and Italy, and Greece will join them assuming they beat Gibraltar, which probably wouldn't be a task beyond Stafford Rangers.

Any win for Portugal on Tuesday over Switzerland sees them win the group and condemn the Swiss to the playoffs instead.

 

[Alan]

I didn't say anything about CONCACAF qualifying being good.

 

[Tredman]

Yes, but it's easy to say 'suck it up' when qualifying for your team is skewed in such a fashion that you can play shit like Altidore and still piss it.

 

[Alan]

Except it isn't that and we haven't "pissed it". We've played like what we are: a pretty weak team against mostly weak teams.

The gap between Mexico, the US, Costa Rica, Panama, and Honduras is not a big one. And there is no "gimme" match at the final round of qualifying.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If Panama lose to Costa Rica and Honduras lose to Mexico on Tuesday (fairly likely), that means one team from CONCACAF will "earn" a playoff - against weak opposition in Syria or Australia - having averaged exactly one point per game in a 10 game phase. It's a pretty damning indictment of the current system.

Also Honduras have been at the last two World Cups and they have added nothing as they are a disgraceful football team. They've scored one goal in two tournaments, won no games and just clogged away at their opponents.

 

[jd1981]

I didn't say anything about CONCACAF qualifying being good.

So you wouldn't argue that the system needs addressing?

 

[Tredman]

Uhuh, you might not have pissed it this time, but as a 'pretty weak' team they will qualify for their 8th consecutive world cup.

 

[Alan]

Yep, and that's indicative of all CONCACAF teams.

I'm not saying for a second that CONCACAF or CAF or AFC or definitely OFC are going to be competitive at the finals but I have less than no sympathy for the "put more Europe in it" crowd.

 

[Tredman]

Put more Europe in isn't the point (and I wouldn't), however, I would put less below average teams in from uncompetitive regions.

 

[Alan]

So you wouldn't argue that the system needs addressing?

It does (in more ways than one), but I don't want Europe getting a great deal more (read: more than 2) more qualifying slots.

My original post was perhaps a bit OTT but Europeans complaining that they have it too rough to qualify has always come off as nothing but sour grapes to me.

 

[jd1981]

If Panama lose to Costa Rica and Honduras lose to Mexico on Tuesday (fairly likely), that means one team from CONCACAF will "earn" a playoff - against weak opposition in Syria or Australia - having averaged exactly one point per game in a 10 game phase. It's a pretty damning indictment of the current system.

Also Honduras have been at the last two World Cups and they have added nothing as they are a disgraceful football team. They've scored one goal in two tournaments, won no games and just clogged away at their opponents.

Basically rewarding less than mediocre performances like Australia and denying over achievements like NI.

 

[Alan]

Put more Europe in isn't the point (and I wouldn't), however, I would put less below average teams in from uncompetitive regions.

Off the top of my head I would say take one away from CONCACAF, give half of one to Oceania (only because having no guaranteed spot, even to that region, just doesn't sit well with me), and half of one to Europe.

CONCACAF half plays CONMEBOL half, AFC half plays UEFA half.

All the systems need reworking though as each region having significantly different formats is not favorable.

 

[jd1981]

It does (in more ways than one), but I don't want Europe getting a great deal more (read: more than 2) more qualifying slots.

My original post was perhaps a bit OTT but Europeans complaining that they have it too rough to qualify has always come off as nothing but sour grapes to me.

I'd take at least one place from Asia, Concacaf and scap the Oceania/ South America play off. That would free up 3 slots I think.
I'd give an extra slots to Europe and Africa.
The world needs representation but not to a point when it really diminishes the quality on show.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Depends what you want. Do you want the World Cup to be contested by the best 32 teams on the planet (as far as that is possible to determine) or do you want there to be some kind of (enforced) diversity based on regions? I would tend towards the former, I have little interest in watching shithouses like Honduras because as I say, they won't even try to play. Then sometimes you get someone comically out of their depth like Saudi Arabia in 2002 or North Korea in 2010.

You shouldn't be given a 50:50 shot at qualifying when you've produced form over the course of 12 months that were it replicated in any kind of major club league, would have you battling relegation.

Off the top of my head I would say take one away from CONCACAF, give half of one to Oceania (only because having no guaranteed spot, even to that region, just doesn't sit well with me)

You're basically giving New Zealand a bye every four years in doing that, and New Zealand are awful.

 

[Alan]

You're basically giving New Zealand a bye every four years in doing that, and New Zealand are awful.

Equally you're telling every OFC federation that they have a real shot at the prize and exposure of making a World Cup Finals.

Also, Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands have been nipping at New Zealand's heels over the past few years.

I already start to lose interest in the World Cup after the round of 16 because by then it's basically 90% Europe and South America. The quality of those regions tells in the end regardless.

 

[jd1981]

Off the top of my head I would say take one away from CONCACAF, give half of one to Oceania (only because having no guaranteed spot, even to that region, just doesn't sit well with me), and half of one to Europe.

CONCACAF half plays CONMEBOL half, AFC half plays UEFA half.

All the systems need reworking though as each region having significantly different formats is not favorable.

Sorry but New Zealand are virtually guaranteed a spot every four years which is just not right they should integrate Oceania into Asia.
Id agree on combining Concacaf and Conmebel into smaller groups.

 

[Alan]

There have been very tentative talks in the past couple of years about a merger between CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. I doubt it would ever happen, but I think that would be a good way to go.

OFC and AFC merging makes a certain amount of sense but I can't imagine that OFC wants that as it basically eliminates every member federation from competing on the biggest stage.

That's my biggest issue with taking away spots from any region. If the minnows don't have something real and wonderful to aim for, they probably just stagnate or dissolve entirely. That must be avoided.

 

[jd1981]

Equally you're telling every OFC federation that they have a real shot at the prize and exposure of making a World Cup Finals.

Also, Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands have been nipping at New Zealand's heels over the past few years.

I already start to lose interest in the World Cup after the round of 16 because by then it's basically 90% Europe and South America. The quality of those regions tells in the end regardless.

Think that says more about how poor NZ are as opposed to how decent Palau New Guinea are. Remember Tahiti efforts at the Fed Cup in 2013? It was embarrassing.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Do you stop watching the Champions League at the quarter final stage too? :icon_lol: I'm not watching Atletico Madrid vs Juventus, not now Qarabag and APOEL have fallen by the wayside. That's a crazy argument mate.

In the final round of qualification in the OFC New Zealand won every game for the 2014 tournament and drew one this time around. Papua New Guinea finished bottom of that mini-group and NZ just duffed the Solomon Islands 8-3 over two legs, so they're not really close to competing at all.

It makes no difference whatsoever to football in New Zealand if they do qualify for the World Cup or not, they have a tiny population and football is a very distant fourth in terms of popularity behind rugby union, rugby league and cricket.