The Official FIFA World Cup 2022 Megathread

[Tony Towner]

Although he's not handling Foden well.

That's tactical though isn't it? As you know I'm not a fan, he frustrates the hell out of me, is the reason we didn't make the final of the last World Cup and the reason we didn't win the Euros, but it's only fair to point out the platform he's built to allow himself to fail in those situations, which his predecessors couldn't

 

[Johnny75]

I think it’s fair to say with Southgate his tactics are found wanting at times. The word at times needs to be used here. Personally he’s got things spot on at times last euros v Germany and Ukraine he got it spot on and he did on Monday too.
Where he’s fucked up Croatia 2018, Italy 2021, and last night.
Can’t argue he’s made a blue print of how to manage the squad off the field and not allow little cliques to develop.

Funny that he got his tactics right against Iran when he had no time with the players but when he had they're the same defensive shit they have been all year under him.

To go back to Ukraine, they were terrible, easily the worst team at the Euros. They were Costa Rica 22 bad.

I haven't seen Southgate do anything tactically to win, change or decide a game.

I have seen him change a game and lose. Happened to be a final as well.

He's a shit manager on the level of Lage tactically.

 

[Johnny75]

That's tactical though isn't it? As you know I'm not a fan, he frustrates the hell out of me, is the reason we didn't make the final of the last World Cup and the reason we didn't win the Euros, but it's only fair to point out the platform he's build to allow himself to fail in those situations, which his predecessors couldn't

Oh yes, no complaints off the pitch in the main. I think he's throwing Foden under the bus personally by saying he can't play in midfield.

 

[Alan]

Sometimes the other team is just better.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Is that because of Southgate though? He doesn't let players sit in cliques, he doesn't allow those divisions. Klopp and Pep say the same incendiary things about each others clubs that Ferguson and Mourinho used to but it doesn't carry through to the International team. I think you sell him short (off the pitch)

Don’t think the English players are such big parts of their team these days though.

 

[Tony Towner]

Sometimes the other team is just better.

Croatia and Italy weren't until they made tactical changes he couldn't react to

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Croatia was incredibly painful to watch. It was like watching a drowning man slowly sink below the waves. They pressed in the second half and suddenly the approach of playing out from the back was abandoned completely and our sole tactic was to play backwards and inevitably the ball ended up with Pickford who smashed it upfield and it came back once more. I sat watching thinking he’ll change it but he just fiddled and the inevitable happened. Italy wasn’t much better and don’t forget Italy are a side that wasn’t good enough to even be in Qatar.

 

[Johnny75]

Don’t think the English players are such big parts of their team these days though.

I think the cult of relying on one player is dead in England. Pep and Klopp changed that.

 

[Johnny75]

Sometimes the other team is just better.

Sometimes but not in the games highlighted.

Think Lage when the other team makes a change.

 

[Alan]

Sometimes but not in the games highlighted.

Think Lage when the other team makes a change.

I mean you didn’t win those, and the manager is part of the team.

I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest that a better tactician than Southgate would suddenly have England sweeping aside most of the world without breaking a sweat, which feels like the tone that is being taken here.

 

[WsWolf]

International football Is a graveyard for managers. You don't often get good coaches with pedigree knocking about there, they all have flaws.

 

[Alan]

Croatia and Italy weren't until they made tactical changes he couldn't react to

You don’t think that downplays the quality of those adjustments?

 

[Johnny75]

I mean you didn’t win those, and the manager is part of the team.

I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest that a better tactician than Southgate would suddenly have England sweeping aside most of the world without breaking a sweat, which feels like the tone that is being taken here.

In the Croatia game as @Wilf Wolf says he did nothing. A better manager changes the game/ personnel to affect the game.

The Italy game was embarrassing that he didn't change it earlier. Everybody could see what was going to happen and I mean everybody.

Last night, there isn't a person outside of that England bench that thought Foden, Wilson, TAA or any others coupled with a change of mentality wouldn't change the game.

He didn't even need to change the formation.

His negative mindset will always mean he can't win as he didn't set out to win in the first place.

As an American that's drilled into you as soon as you play any sport as a peewee.

 

[Johnny75]

You don’t think that downplays the quality of those adjustments?

If you don't make any to counter them then they're the best changes on the planet.

 

[Tony Towner]

You don’t think that downplays the quality of those adjustments?

No, I think it adequately sums up Southgate’s failure to counter them. Johnny's point re Lage is well made, teams are allowed to change things when behind, you have to react, he didn't.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I think the cult of relying on one player is dead in England. Pep and Klopp changed that.

Dunno. Man City have ridiculous depth so get away with it, but even in the recent past when KDB has been injured they have struggled.

Liverpool have been massively reliant on a core group. VVD, Fabinho, Salah/Mane.

The English players just aren’t big parts of the squads outside of Kane or play for non big 6 sides.

 

[Alan]

Just feel a disservice is being done to the quality of opposition that won. Feels as if the suggestion is that what England need to do to win is both obvious and impervious. That’s what doesn’t sit quite right with me about it.

 

[Johnny75]

Dunno. Man City have ridiculous depth so get away with it, but even in the recent past when KDB has been injured they have struggled.

Liverpool have been massively reliant on a core group. VVD, Fabinho, Salah/Mane.

The English players just aren’t big parts of the squads outside of Kane or play for non big 6 sides.

Walker, Stones, Foden aren't peripheral really.

I take your point re KdB but Liverpool are definitely a sum of their parts. Alisson, VVD, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Firmino, TAA, Robertson all key to their success

 

[Johnny75]

Just feel a disservice is being done to the quality of opposition that won. Feels as if the suggestion is that what England need to do to win is both obvious and impervious. That’s what doesn’t sit quite right with me about it.

Think you've taken that the wrong way Alan.

What we're saying is that by not changing anything the manager is going to fail and he did.

He may well have changed something and it still didn't work but we'll never know as he didn't.

He didn't/ doesn't deviate from plan A when plan A isn't working whereas other managers do

That's the Lage comparison.

 

[Alan]

Think you've taken that the wrong way Alan.

What we're saying is that by not changing anything the manager is going to fail and he did.

He may well have changed something and it still didn't work but we'll never know as he didn't.

He didn't/ doesn't deviate from plan A when plan A isn't working whereas other managers do

That's the Lage comparison.

Fair enough, bud. You know how I have to keep you uppity Englishmen grounded