The Incoming Transfers Everywhere Thread: Summer 2023

[Deutsch Wolf]

As much as I don't rate Kilman I don't think he's bad enough to outweigh the benefits of a left/right partnership.

If it's one of Punts' super realistic scenarios where one of the options is League 1 standard and the other is Premier League then yeah.

Still can't agree.

Would I rather have Craig Dawson and Ezri Konsa or Craig Dawson and Max Kilman? No contest.

 

[Alan]

#boomerTactics

 

[Deano]

Still can't agree.

Would I rather have Craig Dawson and Ezri Konsa or Craig Dawson and Max Kilman? No contest.

Not sure if you still watch much German football or not but what do you think of Elvedi?

Be interested to know any opinions of anyone who's watched him as I don't think I have ever seen him play.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He's a decent player, fine on the ball and mobile enough. Would never have him as a total standout star defender but in an organised team (we have been under Lopetegui bar the Brighton/Arsenal on the beach shambles and our annual lose the plot vs Leeds at home) he's a good option.

He's a miles better defender than Kilman or what we saw from Collins.

 

[slink]

A centre back pairing's footedness has a massive effect on both a teams build up play and ability to defend balls down the channel. Certainly a philosophy Lopetegui seems to hold, all his teams have had left/right sided centre back pairings.

It can but it’s not a game changer really or shouldn’t be as long the player playing on that side is comfortable on his left. Not as if Kilman is outstanding on the ball either, body shape receiving the ball is terrible and his passing/choice of pass is nowhere near what i think some believe.

On Lopetegui he’s had both right/left footed and right/right footed partnerships. His most successful periods came with 2 right footed centre backs at Sevilla and when in charge of Spain.

Genuinely wouldn’t be worried about 2 right footed centre backs at all.

 

[leedswolf]

Imagine being so old you don't understand the difference between an emoji and a reaction

 

[Lycan]

Still can't agree.

Would I rather have Craig Dawson and Ezri Konsa or Craig Dawson and Max Kilman? No contest.

Well Konsa can play both sides. Collins couldn't and I don't think Toti can either.

It can but it’s not a game changer really or shouldn’t be as long the player playing on that side is comfortable on his left. Not as if Kilman is outstanding on the ball either, body shape receiving the ball is terrible and his passing/choice of pass is nowhere near what i think some believe.

On Lopetegui he’s had both right/left footed and right/right footed partnerships. His most successful periods came with 2 right footed centre backs at Sevilla and when in charge of Spain.

Genuinely wouldn’t be worried about 2 right footed centre backs at all.

It absolutely is a game changer though. It effects so much of how a team builds from the back.

The right footed centre halves Lopetegui played on the left were capable of playing there and would've acted like left footed players in certain situations (mainly the way they received and moved the ball on and the way they contested with an opposition player when turned around by a ball over their left shoulder). Some players are capable of playing on their opposite side and some aren't.

It makes so much more sense to me to have 2 separate 'depth charts' for each position rather than treating all the centre halves as one big pool and then picking the best 2.

Last season, for example:

RCB: Dawson, Collins, Kilman, Toti
LCB: Dawson, Kilman, Toti, Collins

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But I want my centre halves to defend! Everything else can wait.

"He can't turn or jump and often refuses to close down or tackle, but he's left footed and you're not so you'll have to sit on the bench I'm afraid". Not for me.

Collins couldn't get in the team because he had the touch of a rhino and had the calm of Helmand Province circa 2002.

 

[Alan]

Not sure there's a right or wrong answer here. Just going to depend on the sort of manager you have.

Ideally, you're a Prem footballer, so the basics of defending are an afterthought. Of course, we don't tend to work in ideals.

If you have the left foot of God but directly ship a goal once every other match, you'll probably still get dropped.

 

[Wolftone]

Depends on who they are up against as well. The fashion for playing wide players on the 'wrong' side means that a lot of them are cutting inside the 'full back' and there's regularly a necessity for the CH to close them down.
(or not in our case - just stand off them with your arms behind your back, cowering in case the ball hits you or dangle a leg out half-heartedly)

 

[slink]

Well Konsa can play both sides. Collins couldn't and I don't think Toti can either.

It absolutely is a game changer though. It effects so much of how a team builds from the back.

Yes it can if you’ve got a player that isn’t comfortable there but there’s plenty of right footed centre back’s comfortable on their left.

The right footed centre halves Lopetegui played on the left were capable of playing there and would've acted like left footed players in certain situations (mainly the way they received and moved the ball on and the way they contested with an opposition player when turned around by a ball over their left shoulder). Some players are capable of playing on their opposite side and some aren't.

Well yes this is true, for Sevilla it was Carlos and for Spain it was Pique but we’re not going to be at those levels well Pique anyway but Carlos was never world class. Like i said earlier it’s not like Kilman is good at it either and he’s on his strong foot. His body shape is appaling, his pass selection worse. He carries it well on occasions but him being good on the ball is a myth that’s been created by the futsal gang i think.

It makes so much more sense to me to have 2 separate 'depth charts' for each position rather than treating all the centre halves as one big pool and then picking the best 2.

Last season, for example:

RCB: Dawson, Collins, Kilman, Toti
LCB: Dawson, Kilman, Toti, Collins

I understand this but every squad should have a right footed centre back that can play on the left of the 2/3. There’s just not enough left footed centre backs about and you can’t be playing someone because they’re left footed and may provide balance if they can’t do the basics of being a centre back anyway.

If Elvedi is only half decent on the ball but can tackle and reads the game better than Kilman, so doesn’t get beat by simple balls over his head or pick up nothing positions away from attackers then he walks in for me.

 

[Lycan]

But I want my centre halves to defend! Everything else can wait.

"He can't turn or jump and often refuses to close down or tackle, but he's left footed and you're not so you'll have to sit on the bench I'm afraid". Not for me.

Collins couldn't get in the team because he had the touch of a rhino and had the calm of Helmand Province circa 2002.

Well I mean that's fine if it's your preference but it's not a view that a lot of the best coaches in modern football will share.

Centre halves who can 'just' defend don't often play Premier League football, everything else has to be a majour consideration when selecting players. It's not even enough to just be a good goalkeeper now, watch how Onana revolutionises how Man Utd play next season. He's going to make them such a different proposition with the way he helps his side build possession.

As I mentioned earlier as well, it's not just about build up, some centre halves will be less effective defenders on their weaker side in certain situations. A proper analyst would be able to explain exactly why but they're far more likely to lose duels or commit fouls when they've been turned into the channel between themselves and the full back.

 

[Boozad]

Right footed Willy Boly did a half decent job on the left.

 

[Alan]

Whether you agree or disagree I do think Lycan is speaking truth to the way a lot of clubs will be thinking about it behind the scenes.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Reading the comments about Elvedi from people who have watched him really does make the decision to not cash in on Kilman quite bizarre. He’d be a perfectly good replacement and free up over £20m to bring in another CH and strengthen elsewhere, take your pick where.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Collins couldn't get in the team because he had the touch of a rhino and had the calm of Helmand Province circa 2002.

Hahaha that is a dinger

 

[Johnny75]

Reading the comments about Elvedi from people who have watched him really does make the decision to not cash in on Kilman quite bizarre. He’d be a perfectly good replacement and free up over £20m to bring in another CH and strengthen elsewhere, take your pick where.

We essentially swap Coady for Elvedi.

Kilman would be £30m pure profit to add to the £3m we made on Collins.

Bizarre that the club keep pleading poverty when they should take that as the Elvedi deal proves there's deals to be done at good prices.

 

[slink]

Whether you agree or disagree I do think Lycan is speaking truth to the way a lot of clubs will be thinking about it behind the scenes.

Well obviously if you could have a left footed player there you would. It makes defending on that side easier with things like making tackles, interceptions, blocking crosses and following runs into channels on your stronger foot and it should make playing out much easier but it’s not always the case and that’s how it is with Kilman. The optics say he should be the ideal player there with the ball but he isn’t because as i’ve mentioned earlier he’s better than average at carrying the ball but his distribution isn’t anywhere close to what’s required and then his defending isn’t good enough consistently to make up for that so if there isn’t a left footed player available then a right footed player comfortable on his left that can defend becomes the option.

 

[Alan]

Well obviously if you could have a left footed player there you would. It makes defending on that side easier with things like making tackles, interceptions, blocking crosses and following runs into channels on your stronger foot and it should make playing out much easier but it’s not always the case and that’s how it is with Kilman. The optics say he should be the ideal player there with the ball but he isn’t because as i’ve mentioned earlier he’s better than average at carrying the ball but his distribution isn’t anywhere close to what’s required and then his defending isn’t good enough consistently to make up for that so if there isn’t a left footed player available then a right footed player comfortable on his left that can defend becomes the option.

Hey, tell the scouts, not me!

 

[Lycan]

Yes it can if you’ve got a player that isn’t comfortable there but there’s plenty of right footed centre back’s comfortable on their left.

Well yes this is true, for Sevilla it was Carlos and for Spain it was Pique but we’re not going to be at those levels well Pique anyway but Carlos was never world class. Like i said earlier it’s not like Kilman is good at it either and he’s on his strong foot. His body shape is appaling, his pass selection worse. He carries it well on occasions but him being good on the ball is a myth that’s been created by the futsal gang i think.

I understand this but every squad should have a right footed centre back that can play on the left of the 2/3. There’s just not enough left footed centre backs about and you can’t be playing someone because they’re left footed and may provide balance if they can’t do the basics of being a centre back anyway.

If Elvedi is only half decent on the ball but can tackle and reads the game better than Kilman, so doesn’t get beat by simple balls over his head or pick up nothing positions away from attackers then he walks in for me.

I know that there are centre backs that are comfortable on their weaker side. Not all of them are though, some of the best in the World are more comfortable on one side than the other so I don't think it's anything to do with those players being 'world class' or not. Obviously players who can play both ways will be more valuable because of their versatility.

I agree that Kilman is shit. Unfortunately Wolves don't agree.

Yeah, there are more right footed centre backs who can defend on the left than the other way around for this reason. The best ones deal with situations and progress the ball as if they were left footed though.

I don't know enough about Elvedi to comment really. According to Transfermarkt he seems to have spent most of his time on the right, even playing at RB on occasion. Maybe he can play on the left, I don't know? If not, then hopefully we just sell Kilman and buy someone better who can.