The Football Coaching Thread

[YoungWolf]

creating intelligent decision makers has become part of the FA's new philosophy. It's a bit of a buzzword at the moment but essentially, in order to learn how to play the game you need to actually play the game. They act like they've cracked a code but really it's been blatantly obvious all along.

I still see kids standing in a line waiting to take their turn for a shot every five minutes as part of a 'session'

 

[Johnny75]

creating intelligent decision makers has become part of the FA's new philosophy. It's a bit of a buzzword at the moment but essentially, in order to learn how to play the game you need to actually play the game. They act like they've cracked a code but really it's been blatantly obvious all along.

I still see kids standing in a line waiting to take their turn for a shot every five minutes as part of a 'session'

The phrase 'no shit' springs to mind for the first one and a simple :facepalm: for the second.

I can't believe so called coaches still do that. It's embarrasing.

 

[big mean bunny]

Was at my bros today playing football with my nephew (5) who has been getting coaching and it was heart warming to hear that they don't keep score in matches. He was showing me the skills he knows, couple of step overs and turns. Couldn't get him to use his side foot mind but then he is only 5!

 

[YoungWolf]

Some may have noticed the link in my signature to a blog I've been posting on recently on issues within grassroots football amongst others.. Anyway, if anyone is interested I posted this today about scouting at grassroots level. http://throughthethirds.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-nowhere-men-who-make-hash-of-matters.html

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Refreshing to see the FAI try something different, is this a new thing or are other countries (apart from Belguim in the article) already doing it?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc.../developers-get-chance-to-build-31437480.html

 

[big mean bunny]

Can't get that link to work, is it about the late developers program, where they run two pools of players? Belguim's that you mentioned was referenced in the FA bootroom magazine, very interesting and something I like. Granted I fully support this for personal reasons, leaving for uni in 2000 having just turn 18 I was barely 5ft9, three years later, 6ft and 1/2 inch! (hey 1/2 is important to a bloke!) so I am well aware about developing rates, also remember being told Steven Gerrard grew between when the FA measured him at 21 and 22 as part of their National team stuff.

I am sure Hazard was mentioned in the article about someone out of the late developers program for them, a player I mentioned in here for my school side that was technically superb, but small, and who made a couple of development teams and was always let go (Sheff U and Barnsley) is now about 5ft8 or 5ft9 at a rough guess, which considering he is only just 16 shows that to me he isn't too small, despite having been labelled that continually for the last 5 or 6 years, he isn't far off the having the physique of the lad he played up front with who was our "big kid", problem is now he is considered too old, I appreciate I am biased but he has stood out continually, in a variety of positions, for one of the worst school sides in Rotherham and plays in one of the higher divisions in his league and has something like 200 goals and assists in the last 5 years.

To me this is why you gets the likes of Vardy, Gray etc. Some people just develop much later or have a sudden surge of athletic ability at a certain age.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Can't get that link to work, is it about the late developers program, where they run two pools of players? Belguim's that you mentioned was referenced in the FA bootroom magazine, very interesting and something I like. Granted I fully support this for personal reasons, leaving for uni in 2000 having just turn 18 I was barely 5ft9, three years later, 6ft and 1/2 inch! (hey 1/2 is important to a bloke!) so I am well aware about developing rates, also remember being told Steven Gerrard grew between when the FA measured him at 21 and 22 as part of their National team stuff.

I am sure Hazard was mentioned in the article about someone out of the late developers program for them, a player I mentioned in here for my school side that was technically superb, but small, and who made a couple of development teams and was always let go (Sheff U and Barnsley) is now about 5ft8 or 5ft9 at a rough guess, which considering he is only just 16 shows that to me he isn't too small, despite having been labelled that continually for the last 5 or 6 years, he isn't far off the having the physique of the lad he played up front with who was our "big kid", problem is now he is considered too old, I appreciate I am biased but he has stood out continually, in a variety of positions, for one of the worst school sides in Rotherham and plays in one of the higher divisions in his league and has something like 200 goals and assists in the last 5 years.

To me this is why you gets the likes of Vardy, Gray etc. Some people just develop much later or have a sudden surge of athletic ability at a certain age.

Yep it is indeed, players picked based on a high degree of technical ability but under a certain BMI, I think by the sound of it Belguim have been running it for a number of years obviously bearing the fruits of it now.

 

[big mean bunny]

My copy of that is in the loft otherwise would drag it out, yeah I think they started it either 2000s off the top of my head, another interesting idea I remember reading in one issue of the bootroom was about the Japan Football federation, they run multiple national centres, were at least once a year, all the trainees from certain teams/regions all go to the local national centre and get trained in the national blueprint, tactics, ideas of the national side, so once they get to the national side they will have some training or focus on what the national side do tactically. That sort of long term planning dwarfs us!

Honestly I don't think we (British nations) could ever offer that, as too many of even the Scottish and Irish youth teamers are at set ups that wouldn't give a shit about the national side, unlike the Japanese who have structured there league around the their FA being in total control of everything.

 

[Johnny75]

I think that's a horrible idea BMB. Our FA and their coaching structure are so far behind as it is. Giving the idiots more power to corrupt a whole generation of youth is plain wrong. To me, more ideas the better and being rigid would restrict so many players. Imagine if Ricky Sbragia or Aidy Boothroyd were in charge? We'd have runners instead of footballers.

The two tier system is a very good one and I'm fairly sure the NZ rugby team have been doing this for over 2 decades and still do in schools. If we could implement this that would be great.

 

[YoungWolf]

The FA are currently undergoing a restructure of coaching badges/pathway I believe. Makes me want to hold off on Youth award and UEFA B for now, leaves me in limbo

 

[big mean bunny]

I think that's a horrible idea BMB. Our FA and their coaching structure are so far behind as it is. Giving the idiots more power to corrupt a whole generation of youth is plain wrong. To me, more ideas the better and being rigid would restrict so many players. Imagine if Ricky Sbragia or Aidy Boothroyd were in charge? We'd have runners instead of footballers.

The two tier system is a very good one and I'm fairly sure the NZ rugby team have been doing this for over 2 decades and still do in schools. If we could implement this that would be great.

Yeah I am not saying England should do that, got to remember that Japan only has about 4 tiers/leagues and some of those started in the late 90s, they predominantly use dutch coaches too from what I remember and so they have piggybacked off the back of the Ajax system but on a huge scale. I still think we need a larger focus on futsal or something like that, small sided football is a great idea and for me I think we need to still increase the age range for this.

 

[big mean bunny]

The FA are currently undergoing a restructure of coaching badges/pathway I believe. Makes me want to hold off on Youth award and UEFA B for now, leaves me in limbo

Not heard about this so will be interesting to see what they, I literally do no coaching now and am trying to make this my last year of playing or managing. This is the issue for me with our coaching setup at the moment.

Newly qualified teacher pay - £22,000
Level 2 football coach - 16,000/18,000 a year
Uefa B Coach pay - part time predominantly - seen it advertised around £8.50-£15 - Top end is good but it's rarely 9-5 or with enough hours you wouldn't need another job.

Unless you are willing to go freelance then it's very hard to make a career, I have a mate who has done this and done well, but he had to set up a business and manager other staff, he also had to take coaching badges in gymnastics, fencing, trampolining, handball and a couple of others I can't remember to make himself viable. Football coaching is as much a professionalism as a teacher, it's hard work to plan sessions with continued long term growth in mind. Yet, it is made a very difficult decision to choose being a full time coach over say a full time P.E teaching. 5 years into your life as a teacher and you could potentially be head of department, career choices shouldn't be made on financial gain, but you can't live inside self esteem or job satisfaction.

 

[Johnny75]

Yeah I am not saying England should do that, got to remember that Japan only has about 4 tiers/leagues and some of those started in the late 90s, they predominantly use dutch coaches too from what I remember and so they have piggybacked off the back of the Ajax system but on a huge scale. I still think we need a larger focus on futsal or something like that, small sided football is a great idea and for me I think we need to still increase the age range for this.

I agree with that BMB, if we could get at least a focus on technique no matter what the size of the player I think that would be a start.

Unrelated, I was having a chat with a guy who had recently completed his level 2 (old FA coaching badge?) and he maintained the drills still had queues of players and this was a good thing. he scribbled down one or two drills. It's safe to say they were teaching this nonsense in 1995 when I did my first badge and 20 years on they're still doing the same rubbish, I was embarrassed for him, but to my shame I didn't tell him. I have pages and pages of technical/ phase/ match related stuff that is miles ahead of this. The long winded point I'm getting to is that I learnt most of mine by watching and attending other coaching sessions at clubs, both professional and amateur and they are miles ahead of what the FA are teaching, that surely can't be right. And I haven't coached for nearly 6 years now.

 

[YoungWolf]

The revamp has been ongoing for the last twelve months, I believe it's a realignment with the youth award, which I have thoiught they need to do as the Level 2 is a stark contrast to what they encourage on Modules 1 + 2 from my experience.

I agree there needs to be a professionalism. It's majorly difficult to get a full time role in football, something I aim for. Whether that is in coaching is unlikely (though I one day want to work in an academy set up), even though I see that as what I am best at and want to improve in the most.

 

[Lord Knows]

Andrea Pirlo: "Football is played with the head. Your feet are just the tools."

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Andrea Pirlo: "Football is played with the head. Your feet are just the tools."

Very true.

I find it quite annoying how technique/technical has become the new buzzword for what constitutes a good player but far too often intelligence is still overlooked by many, nothing frustrates me more than seeing a capable footballer constantly making the wrong decisions, doesn't matter how cleanly they can strike a ball if they don't know what they're doing with it. Seems to me that a lot of football in England is still puts the heart over the head, still see a lot of things saying teams didn't want it enough or were bullied out of games rather than being out of ideas or out-thought, tactical awareness or presence of mind seems to be lacking from a lot of players, far too reliant on being told what to do and when to do it rather than thinking for themselves.

 

[Lord Knows]

Very true.

I find it quite annoying how technique/technical has become the new buzzword for what constitutes a good player but far too often intelligence is still overlooked by many, nothing frustrates me more than seeing a capable footballer constantly making the wrong decisions, doesn't matter how cleanly they can strike a ball if they don't know what they're doing with it. Seems to me that a lot of football in England is still puts the heart over the head, still see a lot of things saying teams didn't want it enough or were bullied out of games rather than being out of ideas or out-thought, tactical awareness or presence of mind seems to be lacking from a lot of players, far too reliant on being told what to do and when to do it rather than thinking for themselves.

What seems key in coaching circles now more than in previous eras is to allow young players to make mistakes and learn by making mistakes until they figure it out for themselves. Obviously some require a little more personal advice and tuition.

 

[Johnny75]

I agree with all of that Mark. It is however at complete odds to the FA's insistence of telling people what and how to coach. Until they change that mindset coaches in this country will either be regimented drones with jobs or free thinking unemployed 'radicals'.

 

[Johnny75]

What seems key in coaching circles now more than in previous eras is to allow young players to make mistakes and learn by making mistakes until they figure it out for themselves. Obviously some require a little more personal advice and tuition.

The style you are talking about is trial and error. A limited way of coaching but nevertheless effective in some. I prefer a guided discovery style of coaching and would suggest every coach I've seen has had more success with this method. However these are styles of coaching not the content of lessons.

 

[Lord Knows]

The style you are talking about is trial and error. A limited way of coaching but nevertheless effective in some. I prefer a guided discovery style of coaching and would suggest every coach I've seen has had more success with this method. However these are styles of coaching not the content of lessons.

This is where I'm often at odds with Kenny Jacketts theory, quite often I find what his brain states but what his tools are capable of producing are stark opposites. As an example he wishes for fast attractive passing football yet the likes of Ethan Ebanks-Landell are not at all comfortable trying to pass the ball. Without like minds throughout the team I just dont see how you can maintain any type of rhythm within your play. Little wonder he struggles to get the mix right.