The Football Coaching Thread

[MARKakaJIM]

I'd imagine it's probably a difficult thing to try and coach to younger kids, it's got to be much easier to engage them when presenting the opportunity for them to run around with a ball at their feet than it is to get them to try and think about their positioning, how their movement effects the whole team shape or trying to think up ways to nullify what an opponent is doing. I'd imagine, with no experience of trying to do any coaching, that it's probably something that's easier to introduce a bit later on when the kids have matured a little, gained a little general intelligence and hopefully have a bit greater attention span to apply to a bit of thinking, I suppose the problem you have now though with the age kids are getting picked up by clubs is that by this point it's perhaps already too late. I guess many kids are already long stereotyped into certain roles by their early teens so if they've already spent 5 years in some clubs set up being coached into a very specific role, say some kid who was fast as fuck bought up as an old school winger to use his pace down the outside, then in most cases it would become very difficult to try and introduce new ideas to them at that stage, their usual thought process is already too well imbedded and they've become reliant on their coach/manager telling them to just go down the outside and stick the crosses in.

I've always like the idea of players being punted around positionally as much as possible in their formative years, give them a chance to experience different situations, give them something else to think about, I suppose the smaller sided stuff that seems more common place now is likely to help with that as it's more fluid than 11 a side but you're probably still getting a lot of players pigeon holed into one role or another when they get onto the big pitch.

I remember watching one of those celebs v ex pros games before and they had Mourinho as one of the managers, celebs I think, it showed you a few bits of their training and he had them all lined up in formation with no opposition, then just played through different scenarios one player at a time to see how they reacted, say an attack coming down the left so seeing who pressed the ball and how others adjusted their positioning to suit. I sort of liked the idea to begin with, take the ball itself out the equation so it's a purely mental exercise but then his instructions to correct them were so regiment it put me off, he wasn't so much coaching them to think and adapt as finding their faults and then drilling in commands for them to follow for any given situation.

 

[YoungWolf]

I've always like the idea of players being punted around positionally as much as possible in their formative years, give them a chance to experience different situations, give them something else to think about, I suppose the smaller sided stuff that seems more common place now is likely to help with that as it's more fluid than 11 a side but you're probably still getting a lot of players pigeon holed into one role or another when they get onto the big pitch.

This is something I will always do as a coach, particularly in the younger age groups. How can anyone possibly know what position an eight year old is going to end up as in ten years time? One player who might physically dominate at thy point could end up the smallest in the end. And from my end, if I have promising young player who goes on trial somewhere, and he can't play in the position they ask him too, what does that say about me?

My biggest thing at the moment is trying not to say 'this is how you should do this, you should always react like this in this situation' because you can't just coach for one way of playing, and they need to be able to solve problems themselves within games. Asking the players questions on how they would deal with something gives me a good insight into how they think on the pitch and how I am doing getting them to think in games.

I don't know if you'd like it much, but I think you would be a good coach Mark

 

[Sniffer]

Mark, children and putting himself out to help others :hmmm:

 

[MARKakaJIM]

One of my mates asked me to help him out a couple years back when he took over the running of his younger brother's football team, think his brother was about 11 at the time which is about the limit I can actually tolerate children, the matches and training both clashed with times I already played football though so never came to anything, suppose it would be interesting to give it a go but I'm generally terrible at trying to show anyone how to do anything, I don't convey my processes well and have little patience.

 

[Johnny75]

This is something I will always do as a coach, particularly in the younger age groups. How can anyone possibly know what position an eight year old is going to end up as in ten years time? One player who might physically dominate at thy point could end up the smallest in the end. And from my end, if I have promising young player who goes on trial somewhere, and he can't play in the position they ask him too, what does that say about me?

My biggest thing at the moment is trying not to say 'this is how you should do this, you should always react like this in this situation' because you can't just coach for one way of playing, and they need to be able to solve problems themselves within games. Asking the players questions on how they would deal with something gives me a good insight into how they think on the pitch and how I am doing getting them to think in games.

I don't know if you'd like it much, but I think you would be a good coach Mark

I always liked the phrase 'show me' (not in the Saville sense of the word) when coaching kids, it allowed them free thought. I'd like to think every coach had your standards YW but I'm certain they don't, and worse don't want to achieve more either. It would be a shame if you didn't get a club job somewhere.

I'd agree with Mark being a good coach, he may even like it! Maybe not kids, more adults or youth football, I can't see him having the patience with kids.

 

[slink]

This is something I will always do as a coach, particularly in the younger age groups. How can anyone possibly know what position an eight year old is going to end up as in ten years time? One player who might physically dominate at thy point could end up the smallest in the end. And from my end, if I have promising young player who goes on trial somewhere, and he can't play in the position they ask him too, what does that say about me?

My biggest thing at the moment is trying not to say 'this is how you should do this, you should always react like this in this situation' because you can't just coach for one way of playing, and they need to be able to solve problems themselves within games. Asking the players questions on how they would deal with something gives me a good insight into how they think on the pitch and how I am doing getting them to think in games.

I don't know if you'd like it much, but I think you would be a good coach Mark

I would agree with that YW it's good to put them in different positions, it also makes them appreciate that there are many sides to the game. I think you can have an idea of where some kids will play though early on but you shouldn't play them there all the time.

I hate it when coaches go in and say do this and do that or go and move a player somewhere and the players don't know why. I always ask them questions like what would you do, where could you go and then the most important one is to ask why. They need to be thinking and understanding why they are doing something.

 

[slink]

I always liked the phrase 'show me' (not in the Saville sense of the word) when coaching kids, it allowed them free thought. I'd like to think every coach had your standards YW but I'm certain they don't, and worse don't want to achieve more either. It would be a shame if you didn't get a club job somewhere.

I'd agree with Mark being a good coach, he may even like it! Maybe not kids, more adults or youth football, I can't see him having the patience with kids.

You would be right Johnny they definitely don't and it's scary sometimes and frustrating. Mark mentioned something about kids not understanding but having technical ability and i have to agree with him. I got asked about a player a couple of months ago and i said he's technically not great but very effective and knows what he can and can't do, he picks up excellent positions off the ball and is very good already at knowing when to close down and when not to. The reply from the coach was that he wasn't tidy enough for academy football. I thought that was quite poor if i'm honest.

 

[Johnny75]

You would think the old adage of technique being learnt would apply there, if the player is mentally good enough then you would think technical aspects at academy level would be easily taught.

 

[slink]

You would think the old adage of technique being learnt would apply there, if the player is mentally good enough then you would think technical aspects at academy level would be easily taught.

You would think so. He's signed now by the way but still disappointed that kids are still being maybe knocked back because they aren't tidy enough, absolute nonsense.

 

[Lord Knows]

The misuse of the 'number 10' by Johan Cruyff..


"I can give you more than 10 reasons why a 'number 10' does not work in a 4-3-3 system. It does not make you stronger, but weaker." Johan Cruyff has his doubts about Ajax' choice to field a so called 'number 10' in their system and discusses his concerns in his weekly column in Dutch newspaper 'De Telegraaf'.

"During the eighties, when I was manager of Ajax, all of our opponents played the 4-4-2 system with two forwards. In order to get an extra tactical advantage, we decided to field three defenders, changing from 4-3-3 to 3-4-3, where our midfield was set up as a diamond."

"We did not actually played 3-4-3, but more a 3-1-2-1-3 system, creating two extra lines which made the execution of the positioning play even better. The 'number 10' was the player behind the three forwards. At Ajax I chose John Bosman and later at Barcelona for José Bakero."

"The past couple of years the opponents have figured out this little trick and decided to once again field three forwards.This often entailed a striker with two wingers, forcing you to use four defenders yet again. Fielding a '10' in this situation is risky."

"To preserve the right balance, the centre midfielder should not be fielded in an attacking, but in a defensive position. Thus, a 'number 6' instead of a 'number 10'.

"With a '10' you will play 4-2-1-3 and with a '6' it will be 4-1-2-3. Taking a good look at the two numbers in the middle, you can see that with a '10' two players are behind the ball and one is set up offensively, as with a '6' three (1+2) players are behind the ball of which two are offensive. This is how you kill two birds with one stone: both defensively as offensively you will have an extra player."

"By choosing the '10' anyway, you will get yourself in trouble as soon as the opponent are pushing forward. In this case, there will be only two midfielders behind the ball, who are also required to give a pass 60 metres broadwise. This is impossible to do."

 

[Lord Knows]

Jose: 'When you reach my level it's difficult to learn from others, you have to learn from yourself. I learn day by day.' #CFC

 

[Lord Knows]

what would have improved their coaching the most’, a theme emerged from all the coaches interviewed: “they said they wished they knew the athletes better”.

So if you want to be a better coach the study suggests:
READ a lot – if you got this far you’re off to a good start, if you didn’t get this far, forget it you are never going to make it – the best academics are trying to write in more accessible language. Personally I quite like the challenge of coming across words I don’t understand – it happens a lot – I’m always learning. Also check out videos and webinars and take any opportunity to talk about this stuff.
Devote some time to getting to know ‘you’ and be open to change – this can be painstaking, confronting and time-consuming but it’s probably the single most important area of personal development and absolutely essentially to coaching. Check out books by Steven Covey and Brené Brown as good starting points.
Finally, the aim should always be to get to know your athletes better. This requires real care, empathy and time. It’s not about statistics, it’s being open to research from psychology, sociology, pedagogy, motivation and human development, among many other areas of study. It’s about being open minded and open to change.

https://playerdevelopmentproject.com/key-characteristics-of-the-worlds-best-coaches/

 

[YoungWolf]

Completed the Futsal Level 2 yesterday - my session went well and the tutors really liked my manner. Was a good course with some really fantastic people. The tutors taught me a lot but so did the Brazilians who genuinely improved my ability to play the game with their knowledge.

Coach Education is changing MASSIVELY. There is far more support, and understanding for those who might be finding something difficult (or as it was yesterday, a problem with language barriers).

I'm not sure if anyone has seen, but as of August 2016 it is also becoming more modular and you have to get through 'blocks' of courses to get to the net one. Block 1 will be the Level 1 course, Block 2 the Level 2, Youth Mods 1 + 2. Block 3, UEFA B, Youth Mod 3 (plus the assessment for it). There will be some issues with it but I quite like the direction they are going. For instance, the UEFA B is becoming more competency based, rather than just a one of assessment so you can tick all the boxes over a course of time rather than just on the day. I think this will help coaches improve more and develop as coaches to the best of their ability.

 

[Johnny75]

Progress at last!

Sounds excellent YW, I expect you in the Wolves dugout in the near future.

 

[YoungWolf]

Definitely progress - I went to observe a UEFA B assessment day back in August and I noticed two things. A) Nobody wanted to be on as it was the first day, there were a lot of nerves and B) the quality of the sessions wasn't very high at all, understandable for what is essentially a first go (although I am aware they have practice sessions on support days). I was glad to hear they are changing the way it is assessed and that you will also be able to do it with your own team, which I think is better. A lot more work for assessors I am guessing but it is their job after all.

 

[YoungWolf]

Have any of the coaches on here done the Youth Mod 3 course?

I'm booked onto one in February - be good to finally do it and then I can aim on working towards the Youth award assessment.

 

[Johnny75]

One for the youth coaches:

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...ague-bio-banding-helping-late-developers.html

Interesting that it has taken a pilot and a pity Wolves haven't been a part of this. I'd like us to lead on things like this as we are a club that needs an edge in these sort of things.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I was reading something the other day about youth scouting/coaching and that bio-banding thing was mentioned, think they said it was Southampton's own idea.

 

[Johnny75]

I know Benham at Brentford also does it when he runs his own tournaments but that's 16-20 when the second growth spurt is or has occurred and players are plateauing out. This is the first time I've seen it done in football at academy level.

I think the New Zealanders and Aussies have been doing it in rugby for years though.

 

[YoungWolf]

Raymond Verheijen I know was very critical of the bio banding!

This is an area in interested in researching for my dissertation (birth bias) so that was a good read! The tournament was supposedly a success, and there are certainly some merits to it. It will be interesting to see how it develops in academy football.