Summer 2019 Transfer Thread

[Tredman]

He does but interestingly his heat map covered a lot more varied ground as I tried to get at (which I believe is also backed up by his running stats). It makes sense as he is so good at dictating play for us.

He seems to operate as a kind of left biased more defensive number 10, but without the actual getting into the box part - he leaves that to Donk.

All in all it works very well and is really good to watch.

 

[Johnny75]

Have to say I've not noticed any of our midfield 3 setting up anything than centrally and have always thought when they go into other areas it's with the flow of the game rather than a tactical bias to either side.

It is very fluid.

In plain terms Moutinho is the furthest forward and will press the deeper midfielders in the opposition formation along with pressing all over the pitch, mainly in our final and midfield thirds. Donck is the aerial threat and box to box player, mainly working with Doc and Jiminez on the right side of centre. Neves is the deepest of the three even when we get to the final third.

Neves will often drop into the back four to allow Boly to go to left back, Coady to be the other CB and Bennet to RB. It confuses the opposition when he does this as they don't know whether to follow him or not.

But it's the fluid nature of the midfield triangle that impresses me. When we have the ball Moutinho, Neves and Donck are a standard 3 trying to move the ball side to side. It is in defence where we impress. Moutinho will slide across to the ball on the right/ left and will have one of the others on his trigger so the opposition are pressed. This leaves Neves/ Donck free to win the ball and spring Jota. The odd thing is nobody has been able to stop this, no matter if they've worked this out.

I think with the addition of goals from Donck and a more attacking/ 10 midfielder we'll be able to create more goals from midfield against the perceived bus parkers and that makes us a very different team to play against.

 

[Tony Towner]

Thanks. The Moutinho and Neves roles as described are consistent with my 'eye test' it's the Donck one which surprises me notably the right sided bias.

 

[YoungWolf]

The public have had enough of experts!

That surprises me, do you have Moutinho ones for the same games YW?

-Watford

-Fulham

Again, I think the Watford game there was a lot more sustained work out of possession that explains why Joao is doing a lot more action down the left of the pitch in that game. Whereas against Fulham he was able to work around the pitch and dictate the play, and also win the ball higher up the pitch.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Also don’t forget that with Moutinho taking corners he will still see a lot of the ball on the opposite side when the ball is recycled.

There is definitely a left side bias for Moutinho and right side bias for Donk with Neves playing deeper.

 

[Johnny75]

View attachment 2377 -Watford

View attachment 2378 -Fulham

Again, I think the Watford game there was a lot more sustained work out of possession that explains why Joao is doing a lot more action down the left of the pitch in that game. Whereas against Fulham he was able to work around the pitch and dictate the play, and also win the ball higher up the pitch.

Do you have the Neves ones too?

 

[YoungWolf]

- Fulham

- Watford

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/fixtures.html#s2018-m987961

They are from dailymail match zone, which although it means you have to go on the dailymail website is quite good.

 

[sycophantia]

Have to say I'm enjoying this bit of the thread, well put points and informative, even I understand it, not really any bickering either, thanks guys.

 

[YoungWolf]

@Betweentheposts also do some good passmaps (run by 11tegen11 who’s maps used to get posted on here a lot).

If you search from:betweentheposts wolves in twitter they tend to come up

 

[The Bear]

Good stuff those heatmaps. I'm guessing the left defensive midfield area that Neves doesn't have much of against Fulham is because Boly and Coady pushed forward to bring the ball out more regularly than against superior opposition.

 

[Boozad]

what a weird response to me just describing Dendoncker’s role on the right of our central midfield three, and then backing it up. :icon_lol:

A weird response? I think I'll not bother renewing my season ticket and just check two heat maps per season instead.

 

[Boozad]

This piece shows how Leander covers most of the middle of the pitch on average with his heat map averaged from the season showing he covers just as much on the left as on the right. Also highlights how he covers and helps out Boly in the Liverpool cup game (which he does quite often), he does not predominantly stick to the right.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...s-premier-league-tactical-analysis-statistics

 

[PuntsWolf]

But in that game (against Liverpool) he did actually play on the left of the 3, hence why you can see him on the left...

But that was a one off, he now very certainly plays on the right of the 3.

 

[Boozad]

I very certainly know where he plays. Really can't be arsed to argue this shit.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

He plays predominantly on the right of the midfield three, sure he might end up in different places through the game but that's not his position. Can't believe anyone would try to disagree with that.

 

[Boozad]

Who is trying to disagree with it? I’m saying he doesn’t spend 99% of his time on the right. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[Boozad]

It probably isn't to be fair but a few weeks at college and a couple of games on TV make expoerts.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Who is trying to disagree with it? I’m saying he doesn’t spend 99% of his time on the right. Is that so hard to understand?

Well this post reads very much like you were disagreeing with it.

No he doesn’t, he covers the whole pitch.

From what I've read no-one is claiming he spends '99% of his time on the right' just that his default position is the right of that three. I can't see how anyone doesn't notice that. The same as Chelsea's midfield generally lines up Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic when read right to left, or City would be de Bruyne, Fernandinho and Silva in the same order. Obviously there's rotation of positions, either through tactical means with the ball or as players have to adapt and cover one another out of possession but there will always be default positions they return to and spend bulk of their time in.

It probably isn't to be fair but a few weeks at college and a couple of games on TV make expoerts.

Viewing platform doesn't dictate knowledge or understanding. The best view in the house wouldn't suddenly turn a footballing Luddite into the next Pep. Superfans do like to lash out when being put in their place by the mere mortal armchair supporter though, bless 'em.

 

[YoungWolf]

But in that game (against Liverpool) he did actually play on the left of the 3, hence why you can see him on the left...

But that was a one off, he now very certainly plays on the right of the 3.

But in that game (against Liverpool) he did actually play on the left of the 3, hence why you can see him on the left...

But that was a one off, he now very certainly plays on the right of the 3.

This, that Liverpool game is somewhat of an outlier which is interesting because it was the first game we really played with that system, so I wonder what Nuno adapt it.

Well this post reads very much like you were disagreeing with it.



From what I've read no-one is claiming he spends '99% of his time on the right' just that his default position is the right of that three. I can't see how anyone doesn't notice that. The same as Chelsea's midfield generally lines up Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic when read right to left, or City would be de Bruyne, Fernandinho and Silva in the same order. Obviously there's rotation of positions, either through tactical means with the ball or as players have to adapt and cover one another out of possession but there will always be default positions they return to and spend bulk of their time in.



Viewing platform doesn't dictate knowledge or understanding. The best view in the house wouldn't suddenly turn a footballing Luddite into the next Pep. Superfans do like to lash out when being put in their place by the mere mortal armchair supporter though, bless 'em.

And all of this.

Maybe I don’t go to enough games - I try my best.

 

[YoungWolf]

Have to say I'm enjoying this bit of the thread, well put points and informative, even I understand it, not really any bickering either, thanks guys.

Ha, you spoke too soon. I’ll just keep my opinion to myself next time. How dare I challenge someone who has a season ticket’s opinion!