Societal collapse?

[Walshes Wolves]

Regardless of whether this particular case goes to court and is proven or not, the fact that it has been widely reported that this law exists, and police are willing to enforce it should moderate some people's postings in the future.

Seeing by already withdrawn posts, it already has, which is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Jumped on you

I've seen you and TP downplay/try and define/excuse anti-Semitism on here more than once, so found both your principled takes on that TV incident rather lacking in self-awareness

Given your ridiculous early stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict (and then snipping at me and Del last week) I'm amazed you have the gall to criticise anyone regarding self awareness to be honest.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

People say false things all the time, especially politicians. Newspapers are the same. Wouldn't they have to prove her intentions were to cause a riot?. She might have been given false information and passed it on, which I think they are also saying can be a criminal offence.
For me that is very worrying because for example, a post that said there were over a 100 far right demonstrations on Wednesday, it is thought to have been a hoax. Do they go to prison? The gentleman who said acid was thrown over a Muslim woman's face, eventhough he retracted it later as false, it could be seen as inciting and influencing People to go out and take revenge. T/R loads of occasions, the list would go on forever.Any Palestinian supporters who want the destruction of Israel and the list goes on.
The worrying thing for me is when it is seen or believed to be stopping people opposing government policy.
Also putting people's faces continuously in the media, who some have only shouted at the police and are serving prison sentences. I can't remember that with BLM marches, which I went on and saw violence and the police being intimidated.
I think it is wrong to treat people differently, because it is a demonstration you agree with, or don't as the case maybe. I think it is very dangerous when the state controls the law and at the moment the media and are now trying there hardest to control the Internet.

Newspapers will be exempt (section 180 of the same Act I think).

The rest of your post is merely a rehash of your two tier policing argument for which you are basically rehashing right wing propaganda which is deliberately trying to build a perception of two tier policing. Every situation will be policed differently determined by a number of factors, it is very easy (and convenient for malign actors) to present that as evidence of two tier policing.

There were 135 arrests in relation to BLM protests, but authorities also found that the main organising groups of these protests did not incite disorder or violence. As reported at the time (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rge-floyd-police-statue-arrests-a9567496.html)

More than 210,000 people have joined protests in the UK following the killing of George Floyd, the home secretary has said.

Priti Patel told MPs that 160 demonstrations were held over the weekend, with the “vast majority” passing peacefully.

But she condemned “ugly scenes” in Westminster, where an estimated 2,000 football hooligans, far-right protesters and veterans rallied to “defend” monuments on Saturday.

“Many of the so-called protesters came with the deliberate intent of harming those around them and police officers,” Ms Patel said, calling their actions “indefensible”.

“Those thugs, far from protecting our heritage, did all that they could to destroy and undermine those values. There is no place for their sickening conduct and hate in our society.

“They were violent, they were aggressive and abusive towards police officers. They were patently racist.”

Ms Patel said that Saturday saw 137 arrests for offences including assaulting police, violent disorder, breaches of the peace, possession of offensive weapons and class A drugs.

The State (the Government) does control the law, they literally write it. The courts apply the law and, often, have to interpret the law. If the State does not like the interpretation of the law, they can rewrite it, this is how it has been ever since the State existed.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Newspapers will be exempt (section 180 of the same Act I think).

The rest of your post is merely a rehash of your two tier policing argument for which you are basically rehashing right wing propaganda which is deliberately trying to build a perception of two tier policing. Every situation will be policed differently determined by a number of factors, it is very easy (and convenient for malign actors) to present that as evidence of two tier policing.

There were 135 arrests in relation to BLM protests, but authorities also found that the main organising groups of these protests did not incite disorder or violence. As reported at the time (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rge-floyd-police-statue-arrests-a9567496.html)



The State (the Government) does control the law, they literally write it. The courts apply the law and, often, have to interpret the law. If the State does not like the interpretation of the law, they can rewrite it, this is how it has been ever since the State existed.

Two tier policing has nothing to do with right wing propaganda. It is rather a fact or it isn't. Telling people to leave their weapons in the Mosque and a top West Midland policeman saying that they policed the problem of an attack on an individual themselves.The individual was attacked because he was white and that is a racist attack, just like the white people who attacked a black boy in the park was a racist attack.
Having hundreds of individual, masqued up and many with arms running around our cities, with different weapons and attacking people because of their colour, with hardly any police presence and being treated differently by the police is a two tier system.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Two tier policing has nothing to do with right wing propaganda. It is rather a fact or it isn't. Telling people to leave their weapons in the Mosque and a top West Midland policeman saying that they policed the problem of an attack on an individual themselves.The individual was attacked because he was white and that is a racist attack, just like the white people who attacked a black boy in the park was a racist attack.
Having hundreds of individual, masqued up and many with arms running around our cities, with different weapons and attacking people because of their colour, with hardly any police presence and being treated differently by the police is a two tier system.

I think you have just proved my point.

 

[prawnking]

Given your ridiculous early stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict (and then snipping at me and Del last week) I'm amazed you have the gall to criticise anyone regarding self awareness to be honest.

I'm perfectly self aware, and I also don't tell Jews, Muslims, women, people of colour or the LGBTQ+ community the parameters of what they can consider prejudice or discrimination, so there's that.

I'm certainly not getting into the toxic debate you mention again, but giving some acknowledgement to the atrocity of October 7th when it was still fresh rather than brushing over it straight away is hardly ridiculous in my book.

 

[darlowolf64]

Two tier policing has nothing to do with right wing propaganda. It is rather a fact or it isn't. Telling people to leave their weapons in the Mosque and a top West Midland policeman saying that they policed the problem of an attack on an individual themselves.The individual was attacked because he was white and that is a racist attack, just like the white people who attacked a black boy in the park was a racist attack.
Having hundreds of individual, masqued up and many with arms running around our cities, with different weapons and attacking people because of their colour, with hardly any police presence and being treated differently by the police is a two tier system.

So, in every situation the police should wade in, batons bashing and make arrests, just to make everything the same?

I'd prefer the police to judge each protest on it's merit, look to defuse the situation and make arrests at a later date if they need to (like they have been doing during the last few weeks)

1 tier policing

 

[Walshes Wolves]

I think you have just proved my point.

I suppose you mean rehashed right wing propaganda?
Maybe you can tell me which one of the things I described that isn't true. You can't just label things right wing. Those things rather happened or they didn't.
As they are actually policeman talking in both videos, there is no argument that they told them to leave their weapons in the Mosque. Can you imagine telling right wing rioters to leave their weapons in the pub?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'm perfectly self aware, and I also don't tell Jews, Muslims, women, people of colour or the LGBTQ+ community the parameters of what they can consider prejudice or discrimination, so there's that.

You tell someone they're a "fucking cunt" if you don't like/agree with what they're saying though, so there's that too.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

So, in every situation the police should wade in, batons bashing and make arrests, just to make everything the same?

I'd prefer the police to judge each protest on it's merit, look to defuse the situation and make arrests at a later date if they need to (like they have been doing during the last few weeks)

1 tier policing

The police said they had intelligence that there was going to be a right wing demonstration in Birmingham. Their intelligence was wrong. The West Midland Police officer said that he knew most of the people from the Mosque and they made their decision to not to heavily police them based on that. Then it was found that they had weapons and they racially attacked a man outside the pub. Then another policeman outside the pub downplayed the violence, saying it was no difference to any Saturday night. They said that the community( people from the Mosque), policed themselves. How can you police yourselves for a racist attack, but putting a man in prison for shouting at a policeman behind a riot shield?
That isn't right or left wing propaganda, it is what happened.
There are videos of the police interviews and each racist attack on white and black people that clearly show there has been two tier policing.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I suppose you mean rehashed right wing propaganda?
Maybe you can tell me which one of the things I described that isn't true. You can't just label things right wing. Those things rather happened or they didn't.
As they are actually policeman talking in both videos, there is no argument that they told them to leave their weapons in the Mosque. Can you imagine telling right wing rioters to leave their weapons in the pub?

Yes, it was the police explaining their actions. I guess your version of one tier policing would have involved the police sitting back, letting them bring them onto the streets and then dealing with it. And yes, I can imagine them telling right wing rioters to leave their weapons in the pub if that was the most effective means of de-escalating a situation.

And yes, I can label things right wing. I do it quite a lot, I usually reserve it for people who say and do right wing things.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

The police said they had intelligence that there was going to be a right wing demonstration in Birmingham. Their intelligence was wrong. The West Midland Police officer said that he knew most of the people from the Mosque and they made their decision to not to heavily police them based on that. Then it was found that they had weapons and they racially attacked a man outside the pub. Then another policeman outside the pub downplayed the violence, saying it was no difference to any Saturday night. They said that the community( people from the Mosque), policed themselves. How can you police yourselves for a racist attack, but putting a man in prison for shouting at a policeman behind a riot shield?
That isn't right or left wing propaganda, it is what happened.
There are videos of the police interviews and each racist attack on white and black people that clearly show there has been two tier policing.

It doesn't show there has been two tier policing, it shows that different circumstances are dealt with differently and this is then used to fuel the perception that there is endemic, institutionalised two tier policing predominately by right wing actors.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Yes, it was the police explaining their actions. I guess your version of one tier policing would have involved the police sitting back, letting them bring them onto the streets and then dealing with it. And yes, I can imagine them telling right wing rioters to leave their weapons in the pub if that was the most effective means of de-escalating a situation.

And yes, I can label things right wing. I do it quite a lot, I usually reserve it for people who say and do right wing things.

One tier policing is treating all people the same.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

It doesn't show there has been two tier policing, it shows that different circumstances are dealt with differently and this is then used to fuel the perception that there is endemic, institutionalised two tier policing predominately by right wing actors.

The truth does not depend on right wing or left wing. Racism does not depend on the colour of the person, you are racially attacking.
I've called out right wing and racism on this thread and I have said what I think of T/R. My truths are not based on my political ideology, but the evidence in front of me.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

One tier policing is treating all people the same.

No, it isn't. That is such a simplistic analysis of a complex situation. You treat the situation.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

The truth does not depend on right wing or left wing. Racism does not depend on the colour of the person, you are racially attacking.
I've called out right wing and racism on this thread and I have said what I think of T/R. My truths are not based on my political ideology, but the evidence in front of me.

No it isn't. It is based on the evidence that confirms your pre-existing view.

 

[Alan]

One tier policing is treating all people the same.

By this definition it has never existed.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

No it isn't. It is based on the evidence that confirms your pre-existing view.

Were they racist attacks, when groups of Muslims were attacking individual white people, including battering them with weapons and stamping on their heads?
I saw racist attacks by white people, attacking a lone black boy in a park and attacking people because they looked foreign in a car, which the Muslims did as well. They are all racist attacks, don't you agree?

 

[prawnking]

You tell someone they're a "fucking cunt" if you don't like/agree with what they're saying though, so there's that too.

There's a difference between calling out repeated cuntish behaviour at its peak in an ongoing argument, and whining the first moment someone questions you, but I imagine you can't make that distinction.

 

[AndyWolves]

I think the issue is that if the police don't do anything about people opening carrying weapons in the street it set's the tone, and almost gives permission, to say that carrying weapons is ok if you think you're going to get attacked