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Societal collapse?

The Saturday Boy said:
This isn't happening though. The people who are being called extreme right wing are extreme right wing. They glorify the likes of Tommeh and his blatant islamophobia, they are throwing bricks at the police, they are looting shops and burning libraries. Nobody is calling a big chunk of the population extreme.
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This.

Protest, be concerned or even against immigration, that's your democratic right and you're standing up for what you believe, however wrong I think you are.

Cover your face, pick up a brick, loot a shop, cause criminal damage, assault, intimidate...then you're a far right thug.

And for the sake of balance...turn up to counter a protest with signs and chants - fine. Tool up or start a fight, cause damage...then you're a thug.

As for preventing attacks on/defending a property (whether it's your business or a place or worship etc) that's where I'm a little conflicted. On the one hand it's understandable, on the other hand, that's the police's job, getting involved in that is asking for trouble. Not something I'd personally do but my warriorisms are strictly from behind a keyboard because I'm about as physically threatening as a lettuce.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
This isn't happening though. The people who are being called extreme right wing are extreme right wing. They glorify the likes of Tommeh and his blatant islamophobia, they are throwing bricks at the police, they are looting shops and burning libraries. Nobody is calling a big chunk of the population extreme.
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Oh I don’t know. Quite a few years ago now the under 13’s football club my lad played for was trying to get donations and volunteers to drive to Calais to give to those camped up trying to get across.

I said I thought it wasn’t something the club itself should be getting involved with and the lady involved immediately turned to me and called me a fascist.

It was frankly ridiculous but a typically default reaction of a certain type unfortunately.

Most of the other points I broadly agree with but imv there are a lot of people who think a big chunk of the population are extreme.
 
Del Woppio said:
This.

Protest, be concerned or even against immigration, that's your democratic right and you're standing up for what you believe, however wrong I think you are.

Cover your face, pick up a brick, loot a shop, cause criminal damage, assault, intimidate...then you're a far right thug.

And for the sake of balance...turn up to counter a protest with signs and chants - fine. Tool up or start a fight, cause damage...then you're a thug.

As for preventing attacks on/defending a property (whether it's your business or a place or worship etc) that's where I'm a little conflicted. On the one hand it's understandable, on the other hand, that's the police's job, getting involved in that is asking for trouble. Not something I'd personally do but my warriorisms are strictly from behind a keyboard because I'm about as physically threatening as a lettuce.
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Lettuce is known to viciously attack at the blink of an eye; give yourself some credit!
 
Del Woppio said:
This.

Protest, be concerned or even against immigration, that's your democratic right and you're standing up for what you believe, however wrong I think you are.

Cover your face, pick up a brick, loot a shop, cause criminal damage, assault, intimidate...then you're a far right thug.

And for the sake of balance...turn up to counter a protest with signs and chants - fine. Tool up or start a fight, cause damage...then you're a thug.

As for preventing attacks on/defending a property (whether it's your business or a place or worship etc) that's where I'm a little conflicted. On the one hand it's understandable, on the other hand, that's the police's job, getting involved in that is asking for trouble. Not something I'd personally do but my warriorisms are strictly from behind a keyboard because I'm about as physically threatening as a lettuce.
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a lettuce can outlast a prime minister! better analogies needed!
 
Walshes Wolves said:
Self defence is not using weapons to racially assault people with weapons indiscriminately because of the colour of their skin.
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I don't do social media for the benefit of my own wellbeing. However, there are probably thousands of examples of right wingers engaged in thuggery, violence, assaults and attacks. To my limited knowledge, there has been one single example of a collection of BAME people, congregating where a march/protest was alleged to be happening, and it didn't.
Why is it, do you think, that you are so focussed on the one single example?
 
Tbf i've seen a handful of videos that would be the inverse of right wing assaults we've seen. One on the guy outside the pub, a couple in the street, one involving somebody being dragged out of a car from memory. I'm sure if you looked at certain twitter feeds there'd be more.
 
lemonjelly said:
I don't do social media for the benefit of my own wellbeing. However, there are probably thousands of examples of right wingers engaged in thuggery, violence, assaults and attacks. To my limited knowledge, there has been one single example of a collection of BAME people, congregating where a march/protest was alleged to be happening, and it didn't.
Why is it, do you think, that you are so focussed on the one single example?
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If you are not on social media, I presume you are seeing everything on mainstream media. Isn’t the conversation that mainstream media isn’t covering it?
 
Walshes Wolves said:
I see 2 workings class communities been played against each other. There are extremists on both sides, but the vast majority of these people have seen their living standards plummet, doctor's surgeries close and a general disenfranchisement of the working class in the UK.
Labelling people as hard right wing, or Muslim extremists is easy, but it doesn't change the reality of what we have in front of us. We need the the Prime minister to look at the grievances and for him to tell people he understands their concerns, but he will make it a better country, police people equally and stop the name calling of a big chunk of the population as extreme right wing. There are obviously people stirring conflict up and they need to be dealt with, but look to stop rioting and bring people together instead of dividing people.
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Nobody is calling "a big chunk of the population" extreme right-wing. For all the destruction across the country, we're looking at a hard core of a few thousand EDL-types and then another few thousand people who are tagging along because they see an opening for chaos (as per all riots).

These are fascists. They do not have legitimate concerns. They are going around looking for people who look Muslim to try and beat them up at best, and actually kill at worst.

On the other side are those same people - and people who recognise that they are their neighbours, friends, family - who are arming themselves for self-defence.

There is no equivalence between the two sides, and there is never any compromise with fascism. Ever. Ever ever ever. People can bleat all they want about "legitimate concerns" but their actions speak louder than any mealy-mouthed words of theirs, or from their bootlicking outriders in the national media who have stoked this shit for decades.
 
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lemonjelly said:
I don't do social media for the benefit of my own wellbeing. However, there are probably thousands of examples of right wingers engaged in thuggery, violence, assaults and attacks. To my limited knowledge, there has been one single example of a collection of BAME people, congregating where a march/protest was alleged to be happening, and it didn't.
Why is it, do you think, that you are so focussed on the one single example?
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I think this highlights some of the challenges. Proving one side has greater % of toxicity than the other doesn’t really matter when there is a huge amount of material available to suit your narrative on all sides. The far right are pulling out some very effective (to their ends) footage of attacks from the other side, examples of Two-tier policing, evidence of intentions to introduce Sharia law and all sorts of other stuff that might create further division. The reality and tiny %’s don’t really matter to them, the fact it exists is affirmation enough of the direction of travel they want to stop and justification for their actions.

It’s why I’m concerned this is much more serious than any civil unrest we’ve had before. Cameraphones and SM are pushing us into dangerous territory and solutions are beyond the likes of antifa standing up and cracking a few heads in return.

We’ve got some real problems on our hands and it’s difficult to see a calm place the other side of a lot of further conflict unfortunately.
 
EpsomWolf said:
Oh I don’t know. Quite a few years ago now the under 13’s football club my lad played for was trying to get donations and volunteers to drive to Calais to give to those camped up trying to get across.

I said I thought it wasn’t something the club itself should be getting involved with and the lady involved immediately turned to me and called me a fascist.

It was frankly ridiculous but a typically default reaction of a certain type unfortunately.

Most of the other points I broadly agree with but imv there are a lot of people who think a big chunk of the population are extreme.
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That's some weighty evidence. I've got nothing.
 
We've had a warning that protests are expected in Northallerton this evening, so having to instruct the Cadets to not wear uniform!

There is a hotel that housed immigrants on the outskirts of town and has done for a few years. The kids all walking to school over the level crossing, looking to integrate, parents walking the younger kids to primary school and never any problem. Most of them moved out over two weeks ago into "normal" housing so anyone coming in to town are mostly going to be shouting at an empty building...

Oh, and to use the protester's own language "why don't they fuck off back to where they came from and leave my town alone."
 
Walshes Wolves said:
Sorry, but every side always find an excuse for violence.
I agree that this has been whipped up by Telegram and twitter, but treating and policing people differently does nothing to help the situation.
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Walshes, i get what you are saying, but without wishing to offend you, you are totally missing the main point.
I was a terrace supporter at wolves throughout the football hooligan period.
There were 'fans' travelling from all over britain to other football grounds for a good scrap, not the football, just the bovver.
It was impossible for anyone to reason with them as they rampaged through city centres, attacking and abusing anyone who got in theit way, including women and children.
So, the police resorted to the only language the thugs understood........
the truncheon.
No thought of two tier policing, or freedom of speech and human rights, just a simple edict, if you are in close proximity to the violence and thuggery going on, you got a whack, and a decent kicking.
Two tier policing is all very nice in front of the telly, but faced with a mob of single minded hooligans, truncheon every time for me.
Stop tying the hands of the police.
Allow use of batons, give them the rubber bullets, and fire hoses, and if you are in the vicinity of the mob violence, sightseer, anti baked bean campaignrt or whatever....
Fuck Off when the nice officer tells you to, or hope theres an ice pack nearby.
 
I'll try posting it on the right thread this time.

TT has referenced an area of Derby with a large Reform supporter base (Allenton and Shelton Lock) rumours are the protest is starting there and moving towards Normanton.

I live in Shelton Lock and popped to the Post Office earlier and the local businesses owners were stood on their doorsteps keeping an eye out, and they were all bringing trolleys, A-Boards basically any sort of projectile indoors.

just driven through Normanton on our way out and there's a large gathering of counter protesters in Normanton, (approx 120 odd I'd say)

Police presence in both locations is visible but low key presently. It could be a powder keg though.
 
pr0sl0 said:
Nobody is calling "a big chunk of the population" extreme right-wing. For all the destruction across the country, we're looking at a hard core of a few thousand EDL-types and then another few thousand people who are tagging along because they see an opening for chaos (as per all riots).

These are fascists. They do not have legitimate concerns. They are going around looking for people who look Muslim to try and beat them up at best, and actually kill at worst.

On the other side are those same people - and people who recognise that they are their neighbours, friends, family - who are arming themselves for self-defence.

There is no equivalence between the two sides, and there is never any compromise with fascism. Ever. Ever ever ever. People can bleat all they want about "legitimate concerns" but their actions speak louder than any mealy-mouthed words of theirs, or from their bootlicking outriders in the national media who have stoked this shit for decades.
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What do you call big groups battering individual white people because of their colour?
For me that is racist fascism too. I call out all racism and will not appease it, because of political indoctrination. I have no problem calling out right wing fascism.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Walshes, i get what you are saying, but without wishing to offend you, you are totally missing the main point.
I was a terrace supporter at wolves throughout the football hooligan period.
There were 'fans' travelling from all over britain to other football grounds for a good scrap, not the football, just the bovver.
It was impossible for anyone to reason with them as they rampaged through city centres, attacking and abusing anyone who got in theit way, including women and children.
So, the police resorted to the only language the thugs understood........
the truncheon.
No thought of two tier policing, or freedom of speech and human rights, just a simple edict, if you are in close proximity to the violence and thuggery going on, you got a whack, and a decent kicking.
Two tier policing is all very nice in front of the telly, but faced with a mob of single minded hooligans, truncheon every time for me.
Stop tying the hands of the police.
Allow use of batons, give them the rubber bullets, and fire hoses, and if you are in the vicinity of the mob violence, sightseer, anti baked bean campaignrt or whatever....
Fuck Off when the nice officer tells you to, or hope theres an ice pack nearby.
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There is nothing you have written there which I disagree with, but my point is to treat both sides the same. If someone is jumping on someone's head because of colour, call it out as racism and don't downplay violence from one side because it suits political ideals. Come down with the full force of the law, for violence and throw the keys away for racist violence, but don't down play one sides violent racist thuggery because they are attacking the side you detest, the English working class. Treat all crime, thuggery and racism for what it is, that Is my point.
 
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Derby Wolf said:
I'll try posting it on the right thread this time.

TT has referenced an area of Derby with a large Reform supporter base (Allenton and Shelton Lock) rumours are the protest is starting there and moving towards Normanton.

I live in Shelton Lock and popped to the Post Office earlier and the local businesses owners were stood on their doorsteps keeping an eye out, and they were all bringing trolleys, A-Boards basically any sort of projectile indoors.

just driven through Normanton on our way out and there's a large gathering of counter protesters in Normanton, (approx 120 odd I'd say)

Police presence in both locations is visible but low key presently. It could be a powder keg though.
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There are many reports saying there were never any demonstrations arranged at many of the advertised locations today
 
Del Woppio said:
More likely that the highly publicised and aggressive sentencing from today has given people something to think about
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That and the size of some of the anti-facist protests all over the country. I don't 100% condone it but the video circulating of 4/5 fascists in Brighton stuck between police and a wall while a street full of people let them know exactly how disgusting they are made for satisfying viewing tonight.
 
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