REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Penk Wolf]

No it wouldn't.

Really? So you think small businesses and micro businesses can cope with paying staff £10 per hour and corporates will just except a 7% corporation tax rise?

It would end up that Labour would have less income bony more.

Borrowing more is the way they should've gone not attacking businesses.

 

[Tredman]

Paying a 'normal' corporate tax rate (i.e. Same as US and Germany') is not attacking companies. They benefit from government expenditure, they should pay their way or go elsewhere.

 

[leedswolf]

Really.

 

[Johnny75]

Really.

It would kill independent retail stone dead. Not to mention a lot of small tier 3 or 4 businesses that depend on high volume unskilled work.

Do we all just accept price rises and instantly make everybody poorer as that's exactly what would happen.

98% of all business in the UK are small/ micro. It isn't the minimum wage that needs to rise but access to facilities and getting the larger companies to pay their real tax rates in the first place. Not having offshore offices to base their tax affairs out of and the like.

If Labour wanted to be truly equal to small businesses corporation tax would be on a sliding scale where the biggest earners pay the most. And then get them to pay it. Just a 2 or 3% rise would have a huge effect.

 

[leedswolf]

It wouldn't.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Well, I'd close two of three.

Tredman, the difference between Germany and the US is that payment terms to suppliers are fairer, so don't need to borrow as much, which means the Government has it rather than banks or loan companies.

Sort out payment terms and then we can start looking at increasing corporation tax, employers NI, etc.

 

[Tredman]

Well, I'd close two of three.

Tredman, the difference between Germany and the US is that payment terms to suppliers are fairer, so don't need to borrow as much, which means the Government has it rather than banks or loan companies.

Sort out payment terms and then we can start looking at increasing corporation tax, employers NI, etc.

Fairer how? I've sold into the UK, most of Europe and all of North America - payment terms were almost always 30 days EOM, 60 very very occasionally. In general everyone pays late though, the U.K. are probably the worst at that.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Fairer how? I've sold into the UK, most of Europe and all of North America - payment terms were almost always 30 days EOM, 60 very very occasionally. In general everyone pays late though, the U.K. are probably the worst at that.

Europe and US both charge late payment interest and enforce it. Everyone I've dealt with in Europe pay on 30 days give or take a few. My average days on UK debtor books is around 90 days.

 

[Tredman]

Europe and US both charge late payment interest and enforce it. Everyone I've dealt with in Europe pay on 30 days give or take a few. My average days on UK debtor books is around 90 days.

We don't charge late payment interest - all our sales to the Uk are done from our French office in €.

The problem in the U.K. is everyone expects, with a nod and wink, to pay late. If you don't have much competition it's fairly easy to change this..

 

[Penk Wolf]

We don't charge late payment interest - all our sales to the Uk are done from our French office in €.

The problem in the U.K. is everyone expects, with a nod and wink, to pay late. If you don't have much competition it's fairly easy to change this..

Exactly, which is my point. Until that is sorted then companies will struggle with increased CT rates.

 

[Tredman]

It's shit and a pain in the ass, but it's no excuse for corporations treating the U.K. as a cash cow - taking out as much as possible and investing as little as possible.

If we really want to encourage independent owned SMEs we can tailor the corporation tax to ensure they pay less

 

[Penk Wolf]

It's shit and a pain in the ass, but it's no excuse for corporations treating the U.K. as a cash cow - taking out as much as possible and investing as little as possible.

If we really want to encourage independent owned SMEs we can tailor the corporation tax to ensure they pay less

Corporations, no, but it will encourage them to move to cheaper alternates, like Poland or Ireland.

 

[Tredman]

Corporations, no, but it will encourage them to move to cheaper alternates, like Poland or Ireland.

Unlikely for manufacturers, they will already have invested in the U.K. and have skilled and trained workers. Leaving the EU will do way more to discourage that type of investment anyway.

Banks and the like - yes possibly, but we could do with a lot less of them and a lot more focus on manufacturing and ensuring all our money doesn't end up in the pockets of a very small number of people.

 

[Johnny75]

Unlikely for manufacturers, they will already have invested in the U.K. and have skilled and trained workers. Leaving the EU will do way more to discourage that type of investment anyway.

Banks and the like - yes possibly, but we could do with a lot less of them and a lot more focus on manufacturing and ensuring all our money doesn't end up in the pockets of a very small number of people.

Don't disagree with any of that and I agree it's the way to go. I still have no idea why corporation tax isn't on a sliding scale and why we aren't stringently dealing with the financial sector with greater force. Solve those issues and minimum wage issues will be secondary.

You will know cash is king in the current climate putting the minimum wage up will kill a lot of business as a fair chunk make Tiny profits or live hand to mouth. It would force them to close and kill more innovation.

 

[Keef]

Where I work £10 an hour is only another 50p but with 50 employees,that's an extra £1000 a week the boss has to find,that's not easy when it's bus passengers,if you put the prices up,less people will use them,we've a couple of routes that average about £300 a day,1 averages £120,the rest average out about £75, the worst of the lot does £6-10 a day,chuck in a fuel bill of £25000 a week(for the buses and coaches) and it's very tight margins already

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think the proposal (and this is gleaned from what Corbz said on QT) was something like businesses would get tax relief to help subsidise this if they couldn't afford to pay their employees £10 an hour. So if that all worked correctly, the business wouldn't be any worse off. Meanwhile the employee has the money in their pocket, which they'll spend, which boosts the economy, and they have less to worry about in terms of putting food on the table. You'd reduce the tax credit bill in the process. Now this is kind of shifting one benefit to another, but basically it means the likes of Craig wouldn't be forced to go under because everyone's earning more, whereas Amazon or Tesco can get to fuck and actually pay people properly because there is no excuse for them not to do so.

You wouldn't see an immediate improvement in finances but you would force big corporations to play ball, reduce in-work poverty and the more money ordinary people have, the better the Exchequer does in the long run.

Whether it would work in practice, who knows? My crystal ball is still broken since the time I sent it back for saying that George Saville would do well for us. But it is an alternative to unending, permanently grim austerity which is the only answer the Tories have. If you're poor, work yourself to the bone and be thankful for the crumbs you get from the table. Permanent wage stagnation. That is far more damaging than anything Corbyn has ever proposed.

Edit: Basically the idea is that you boost wage packets (which is desperately needed and a situation which will get very serious very soon if nothing is done) and stop massive companies taking the piss. Not sure how anyone can disagree with the principle of that.

 

[Penk Wolf]

The problem is Corbyn's response was an off the cuff remark and wasn't said with any conviction. I also questioned David Williams about it too and he just referred me two pages in their manifesto, but again didn't mentioned anything specific about it and the two pages had no substance to it.

Asda, Tesco, etc. would just increase price ms causing inflation and people would be no better off.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Lidl and Aldi are fucking Asda and Tesco as it is (and rightly so). Don't think they have the power in that sense any more. But they do currently have the right to pay people less than is viable for them to live on, which means the Government have to step in, and their crappy arbitrary rules don't always work so people are grafting away and still starving...it's not right.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Asda and Tesco were just examples. Lidl and Aldi would be the same.

Shareholders and bankers would still expect these companies to either make similar or increase profits and they will only be able to do that by increasing prices or making redundancies so 1 person is doing the job of 2.

If people aren't happy with what they earn they should be looking elsewhere.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Lidl and Aldi exist for being low price. They won't increase them. They don't need to.