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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Hard to see Brexit not going ahead now. As things stand the Tories will get a majority if there is an election and it’s game over. The only hope is Corbyn unexpectedly drops dead,as so long as he’s there Labour will put up less of a challenge than Watford did at City last month. Brexit was predicted to tear the Tories apart but in the end it could well kill off Labour. If Scotland does opt for independence I fear that I will live the rest of my life under a Tory government.
 
Top trolling from Ken Clarke

NEW: Ken Clarke says if the PM presents a one line bill calling for an election (remember he needs a way round that Fixed Term Parliaments Act), then MPs will amend it. For example, to reduce the age of voting to 16. Snap election might not be so easy for PM after all.
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To be fair it raises a very valid point, the youth are going to be very disproportionately affected by Brexit, they should have a say.
 
Report – Corbyn and PM to discuss new Brexit bill timetable
This is from the Times’s political editor, Francis Elliott –


Francis Elliott
@elliotttimes
EXCL: I understand Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn are meeting to discuss a new programme motion.
 
Laura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak

Hear nothing was agreed at PM-Corbyn meeting - Labour wanted to discuss a different timetable for Brexit bill, govt wanted to know what Lab would do if the extension is vetoed - sounds like neither side came away with much
 
tredman said:
Top trolling from Ken Clarke



To be fair it raises a very valid point, the youth are going to be very disproportionately affected by Brexit, they should have a say.
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16 year olds cant legally smoke, drive, cant drink , cant make legal decisions and in the eyes of the law are not adults. But we want them to hold sway of our futures. And people say brexiters were nuts.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
16 year olds cant legally smoke, drive, cant drink , cant make legal decisions and in the eyes of the law are not adults. But we want them to hold sway of our futures. And people say brexiters were nuts.
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But can go abroad on military action and get shot to death
 
16 is an acceptable age to vote in some other democracies. I have no problem with it.
 
Old enough to work, get married and have children. But not vote on any of the above. Ok.
 
tredman said:
Old enough to work, get married and have children. But not vote on any of the above. Ok.
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Precisely. They can contribute towards the economy but aren't allowed a vote as to how it's run. Which is frankly bizarre. The other examples are somewhat irrelevant.
 
tredman said:
Old enough to work, get married and have children. But not vote on any of the above. Ok.
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Yeah, now we are getting on some real dodgy ground.

You can work at 13

You can have kids at 13

Doesnt mean that should be happening though does it?

This country has legislation defining children, young persons and adults and that has stood the test of time.The only reason people are looking to change it now is in response to Brexit. Its bollocks.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Yeah, now we are getting on some real dodgy ground.

You can work at 13

You can have kids at 13

Doesnt mean that should be happening though does it?

This country has legislation defining children, young persons and adults and that has stood the test of time.The only reason people are looking to change it now is in response to Brexit. Its bollocks.
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I'm ambivalent on younger people voting in elections, but I can definitely see why they should vote in a referendum. Most of us will be ok, the younger generation will fin themselves irrevocably harmed by a decision they had no say in - it would make more sense to have an upper age limit.

And the argument that 'its stood the test of time' is vacuous - so did women not voting for many centuries, the working class not voting etc. Doesn't mean its right because that is how its always been
 
Langers said:
Precisely. They can contribute towards the economy but aren't allowed a vote as to how it's run. Which is frankly bizarre. The other examples are somewhat irrelevant.
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Such as alcholhol abuse, smoking, getting married. Mkay
 
tredman said:
I'm ambivalent on younger people voting in elections, but I can definitely see why they should vote in a referendum. Most of us will be ok, the younger generation will fin themselves irrevocably harmed by a decision they had no say in - it would make more sense to have an upper age limit.

And the argument that 'its stood the test of time' is vacuous - so did women not voting for many centuries, the working class not voting etc. Doesn't mean its right because that is how its always been
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But "stood the test of time" is exactly how british legislation is viewed when challenged. If there is something wrong with it you have to identify why, specifically. Discrimination for gender and moves towards equality were bloody good reasons.

To overturn a vote you dont like the result of , in my view, isnt.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
But "stood the test of time" is exactly how british legislation is viewed when challenged. If there is something wrong with it you have to identify why, specifically. Discrimination for gender and moves towards equality were bloody good reasons.

To overturn a vote you dont like the result of , in my view, isnt.
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Its not about the result of the vote at all, but the general principle - this is a long term decision which will massively reduce the opportunities available to the young of today and current estimates suggest they will be 10 to 20% poorer. Yet they have no say.
 
tredman said:
Its not about the result of the vote at all, but the general principle - this is a long term decision which will massively reduce the opportunities available to the young of today and current estimates suggest they will be 10 to 20% poorer. Yet they have no say.
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yet no one saw fit to have this argument pre June 2016?

Funny that.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
yet no one saw fit to have this argument pre June 2016?

Funny that.
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Yes they did actually, was quite a discussion around this in conjunction with the Scottish Referendum. See also the disenfranchisement of people who have/had lived (and voted) here for years at the same time and of long term emigrants from the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/14/lords-reject--lower-eu-referendum-voting-age-16

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ng-voting-age-for-eu-referendum-a6764966.html

https://www.byc.org.uk/news/16-year-olds-vote-in-scotland-but-not-in-the-rest-of-uk

etc
 
There was a huge fuss about it at the time because IndyRef wanted 16. Selective memory from cyber there.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
There was a huge fuss about it at the time because IndyRef wanted 16. Selective memory from cyber there.
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I thought that was for the scottish referendum. Apologies for not reading the guardian or independent.

Still, its two sides of the same coin. They did look at it and rejected it for the reasons along the line that I have given. Same result.
 
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