REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

My personal view is that if you have to resort to calling people cunts, you’ve probably lost the argument.

Ah bless.

 

[Sedgley Wolf]

My personal view is that if you have to resort to calling people cunts, you’ve probably lost the argument.

Last time I checked both sides were doing it, so how does that work?

 

[The Weasel]

I suspect both sides will end up losers...

 

[Papper]

Hah, well - I tried.

My only response to this is this: Not once did I say that Leave voters did not know what they wanted. Indeed, I consistently and deliberately avoided falling into that trap, and if you read what I wrote - the literal words as written - you'll see that you've projected almost everything you've actually responded to.

Of course you knew what you voted for, just like I know what I voted for. Everyone knows what they themselves voted for. This whole mess is because of this tendency to keep insisting that everyone else on your side thought the same thing as you, and that means your own specific version of Brexit is the "correct" or "only logical" one.

Ok, fair enough - hands up I interpreted that incorrectly. What threw me was when you highlighted the section of my post when I mentioned Dave and Gideon and then mentioned 'rewriting history in respect of leaving the single market' - inconsistencies etc. It is not my intention to imply that there is no variation in the reasoning each of us took and I would fully accept that some in the 'leave camp' were and are not instantly put off by the concept of the single market (as it is mutually beneficial for all). It was a case of information overload prior to the referendum and the emphasis seemed to be on the freedom to negotiate other trade deals unilaterally and not be bound by certain directives that encapsulate it - such as Freedom of movement. I do feel that failure to renogotiate means a NO deal exit... and that is unpalatable.

 

[Tony Towner]

One of Brexit's ironies is those who voted leave now using the words of the remain side to demonstrate that No Deal or failure to remain in the single market or having access to it was known prior to the referendum. Prior to it it was Project Fear. At the same time Johnson saying on numerous occasions that we would have one of those things is conveniently forgotten.

 

[Papper]

One of Brexit's ironies is those who voted leave now using the words of the remain side to demonstrate that No Deal or failure to remain in the single market or having access to it was known prior to the referendum. Prior to it it was Project Fear. At the same time Johnson saying on numerous occasions that we would have one of those things is conveniently forgotten.

Or rather a failure to renegotiate the terms of our inclusion in a 'single market' that doesnt leave us bound by EU Directives. Essentially a new relationship within Europe ...

 

[Tony Towner]

Or rather a failure to renegotiate the terms of our inclusion in a 'single market' that doesnt leave us bound by EU Directives. Essentially a new relationship within Europe ...

...which as you know they can't offer without freedom of movement. A pick and mix choice of the 4 pillars was never going to be on the table.

 

[Papper]

...which as you know they can't offer without freedom of movement. A pick and mix choice of the 4 pillars was never going to be on the table.

Yes, absolutely - so all parties shoot themselves in the foot and we helter skelter towards a WTO exit. I suspect much of this redefined Single Market had been redrawn but the stumbling block was the back-stop.

 

[Papper]

My personal view is that if you have to resort to calling people cunts, you’ve probably lost the argument.

Wolves AY We ...

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Yes, absolutely - so all parties shoot themselves in the foot and we helter skelter towards a WTO exit. I suspect much of this redefined Single Market had been redrawn but the stumbling block was the back-stop.

The EU did no foot shooting at all. Our amazing negotiators asked the utterly and completely impossible, and now are trying to blame the other side for saying no. That's a joke.

 

[Papper]

The EU did no foot shooting at all. Our amazing negotiators asked the utterly and completely impossible, and now are trying to blame the other side for saying no. That's a joke.

A failure to negotiate is a mutual fuck-up when legally the default position is the calamity that faces us on November 1 - but Manny saying the back-stop is not renogotiable has resulted in Johnson running off to Betty. You then get monotone John and Fat Ken the Bilderberger flapping like headless chickens to add to the general fuck up of fuck ups.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

No.

Asking the earth and then moaning when the other side says no is emphatically not a failure to negotiate on both sides. It is the fault of the idiot asking the impossible.

I'm a bit skint at the moment. Transfer fifty grand to me today from your account. When you don't I'll moan to my bank manager that it's your fault I am a bit financially strapped at the end of the month.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hmmmm

Downing Street (for that read that utter wanker Cummings) is threatening all Conservative MPs that vote against the government this week with de-selection.

It's a fucking dictatorship.

 

[Kenny]

Cummings appears to be our PM.

 

[Tony Towner]

It's the Bannon playbook

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Cummings appears to be our PM.

This won't last long. The government will be brought down.

 

[Kenny]

This won't last long. The government will be brought down.

As much as I want to agree, I don't think it will.

 

[Tony Towner]

If Hancock, Gove, Morgan and Javid can be so transparently hypocritical I don't have a lot of hope for others to effectively cross the floor now that they are making it a confidence vote. Maybe Grieve or Clarke will as they are as good as gone anyway.

 

[Aikiwolf]

A failure to negotiate is a mutual fuck-up when legally the default position is the calamity that faces us on November 1 - but Manny saying the back-stop is not renogotiable has resulted in Johnson running off to Betty. You then get monotone John and Fat Ken the Bilderberger flapping like headless chickens to add to the general fuck up of fuck ups.

I have to say Papper, I completely disagree with your views on Brexit but to blame one side who offered a solution we turned down (the "May Deal" for want of a better term) as the reason this negotiation has failed seems odd? It is probably one of the most difficult negotions ever to occur and the people who have wanted to leave have failed us in offering a realistic vision of how our future looks.

My money is on a hard Brexit with a total, two footed, re-entry into Europe within 5 years inc a single currency and reduced powers of veto (because we have lost these through Brexit).

 

[Tony Towner]

I have to say Papper, I completely disagree with your views on Brexit but to blame one side who offered a solution we turned down (the "May Deal" for want of a better term) as the reason this negotiation has failed seems odd? It is probably one of the most difficult negotions ever to occur and the people who have wanted to leave have failed us in offering a realistic vision of how our future looks.

My money is on a hard Brexit with a total, two footed, re-entry into Europe within 5 years inc a single currency and reduced powers of veto (because we have lost these through Brexit).

Irrespective of how badly Brexit goes, the pound is sacrosanct. I don't see any scenario whereby we join the Euro and Brexit being a disaster makes it even more unlikely from an inflationary perspective