REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Papper]

Hard border - IRA back active. Shit storm
NI leaves union - UDA, UVF and co back active. Shit storm.

So the UK has to remain part of the EU because otherwise the Irish will start killing each other again?

 

[Papper]

The EU arent being cunts. They're just using their power to negotiate on behalf of their members.....kinda like a union...

Absolutely - the loss of the UK is not good news for them. I would imagine right now Mr VW, Mr Peugeot et al are knocking on their doors shitting themselves that their cars are going to become far more expensive to sell in the UK. The negotiations were going nowhere and Johnson played his final card. Desperate, totally avoidable measures following a three year farce in Westminster.

 

[Premier Quality]

The EU arent being cunts. They're just using their power to negotiate on behalf of their members.....kinda like a union...

Like a government?

 

[SLA]

Absolutely - the loss of the UK is not good news for them. I would imagine right now Mr VW, Mr Peugeot et al are knocking on their doors shitting themselves that their cars are going to become far more expensive to sell in the UK. The negotiations were going nowhere and Johnson played his final card. Desperate, totally avoidable measures following a three year farce in Westminster.

An entirely predictable, and indeed frequently predicted, farce.

 

[Aikiwolf]

So the UK has to remain part of the EU because otherwise the Irish will start killing each other again?

If leaving the EU is going to cost any lives then surely staying in the EU is worth it?

 

[Papper]

Would be interesting- we could do with a centrist party. Will only happen though if the no deal happens and then the likes of Hammond do it. I can’t see it though, it takes a long time to give up hope in a party you’ve been a big part of for years - took omuna and the others quite a while to leave labour despite all the efforts to unseat Jezza failing.

It’s a shame the TIG idiots muffed it up so badly tbh

The centrist party offered by New Labour was a socio-economic war-mongering failure .... hence the desire for parties left and right of centre.

 

[Papper]

you are literally describing your own "economic utopia" and with no substance about how it can be achieved. this is delusional. read the first part of your first sentence.

repeating soundbites will not make them reality

no prominent brexiteer is proposing a different economic model unless you can tell me differently? so you will simply strengthen corporate bargaining positions and get more of the same, dressed up to be socially acceptable and economic by whichever party has had the nod from the nation and backed by whichever media they are in the pocket of.

There are as many reasons for voting remain as there are leave so there is no prominent Brexiteer who offers a defined blueprint who must be strictly adhered to. Similarly there is no defined blueprint on political governance as X does not necessarily lead to Y. Predictions were made back in 2016 as to the effects of a leave vote and they have not materialised. Politics is one big delusion and there exists a large smattering of egocentrism in regard to Brexit ... my fundamental belief (rightly or wrongly) is that there has to be a massive shift away from globalism where politicians serve corporations towards politicians serving people. It may be a blurred vision, it has no exact blueprint but that is the most important value I place on humanity.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hmmm. Last time I looked neither the IRA or UDA or indeed the INLA limited themselves to killing Irish people. But I’m sure you know that.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

The leave vote infers the UK has complete autonomy. The back-stop does not give the UK autonomy - it would have left the UK as a vassal state. If the UK had stayed in the customs union, single market etc etc it had not left the EU. The vote was to leave, not stay half in .... the fact they had three years to strike a new deal, a new relationship which they had abysmally failed at - therefore the blame lies fairly and squarely with May and those who refuse/d to accept the mandate given in the referendum ( a vote by the people of this country that has not been delivered ). Westminster is there to serve and enact the will of the people.

The leave vote inferred nothing of the sort. Any deal with the EU requires the loss of a degree of autonomy and leave could be anything from remaining a.memner of the single market and customs union to a complete cessation of all and any ties. Only the latter gives complete autonomy and that is arguable.

You are also misrepresenting Parliament which is a representative democracy where we hand decision making powers to elected representatives to take these decisions on out behalf. At best this is based on a loose commitment in a manifesto but certainly not a requirement to "enact the will of the people". And how can you possibly know that the will of the people is to leave without a deal? How could you know that the will of the people is to leave with a deal, or even to remain? The will of the people is a fallacy, it exists in the minds of people who have already formed their own opinion and seek to justify it on the basis of what they think someone else thinks.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

none of it is worth one dead person in Ireland or anywhere else, i have been there in the b'ham pub bombings, there is nothing pretty or politically correct about any of it when you carry out a dead friend!

 

[Papper]

The leave vote inferred nothing of the sort. Any deal with the EU requires the loss of a degree of autonomy and leave could be anything from remaining a.memner of the single market and customs union to a complete cessation of all and any ties. Only the latter gives complete autonomy and that is arguable.

I think they made it perfectly clear that a vote to leave would mean leaving the single market. We are also not bound by EU Directives or EU Laws unless we are member of the union. A leave vote was a vote to leave the union. Dave also said there wouldn't be a second referendum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2hSVfqtYc

You are also misrepresenting Parliament which is a representative democracy where we hand decision making powers to elected representatives to take these decisions on out behalf. At best this is based on a loose commitment in a manifesto but certainly not a requirement to "enact the will of the people". .

Interesting thoughts. A loose commitment in a manifesto? My supposition was that change came from the bottom of up and that manifestos were formed from public opinion/lobby. We place trust that these will be enacted on our behalf. Change from the top down is in my opinion fascism. There is a reality to what you say though and this is exampled at places like the Bilderberg meetings that are unreported/documented/minuted ... where some of our representatives go and have a natter. Maybe these representatives make decisions based on what the 'experts' say ie WMD's in Iraq. Fuck the Proles, we'll make loose commitments in the manifestos and do what we like ie ignore the leave vote in the referendum and tell them they didn't know what they were voting for ..

 

[Papper]

Hmmm. Last time I looked neither the IRA or UDA or indeed the INLA limited themselves to killing Irish people. But I’m sure you know that.

Yes, fully aware. I'm not entirely sure people would want to kill others because the EU requires EIRE to uphold the credibility of the single market. Both the Irish and UK governments have stated there will be no physical checks at the border. The ball is in the EU's court ..

 

[arklowolf]

Yes, fully aware. I'm not entirely sure people would want to kill others because the EU requires EIRE to uphold the credibility of the single market. Both the Irish and UK governments have stated there will be no physical checks at the border. The ball is in the EU's court ..

Precisely.
The Irish politicians (I wont call them 'government) and the EU are quite prepared to sacrifice their own people on a point of principal though. Playing with peoples lives and livelihoods whilst feathering their own nests.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It's one thing for the UK government to say they don't want a hard border, it's a completely different thing for them to find a way to make that a reality.

If there isn't a UK/EU customs union then there has to be a hard border, so the UK refusing the former means they can't promise the lack of the latter. They're talking bollocks, claiming the EU are being obstructive and too many people are lapping it up.

 

[Johnny75]

Those people are fucking idiots Mark. Like Liverpool fans it's always somebody else's fault.

 

[Tredman]

Precisely.
The Irish politicians (I wont call them 'government) and the EU are quite prepared to sacrifice their own people on a point of principal though. Playing with peoples lives and livelihoods whilst feathering their own nests.

Mate, read back what you have written and replace Irish with British and you are almost there (you'd also have to replace principle with corruptly assisting their fellow disaster capitalists)

 

[nimrod]

It's one thing for the UK government to say they don't want a hard border, it's a completely different thing for them to find a way to make that a reality.

If there isn't a UK/EU customs union then there has to be a hard border, so the UK refusing the former means they can't promise the lack of the latter. They're talking bollocks, claiming the EU are being obstructive and too many people are lapping it up.

surely the horde of invading islamists in nigel farage’s poster would in any event relish that open border...

 

[arklowolf]

It's one thing for the UK government to say they don't want a hard border, it's a completely different thing for them to find a way to make that a reality.

If there isn't a UK/EU customs union then there has to be a hard border, so the UK refusing the former means they can't promise the lack of the latter. They're talking bollocks, claiming the EU are being obstructive and too many people are lapping it up.

The 'Customs union' is a red herring, there could be a trade agreement without it. Furthermore it would be a great boost for both the Republic and The North of Ireland and would strengthen the historical bond between the two rather than weaken it as a hard border would.

 

[Johnny75]

How would that work and what would it look like?

No fluff, be exact please.

 

[arklowolf]

How would that work and what would it look like?

No fluff, be exact please.

Haha. The leaders of 27 countries after 3 years can't work something out and you want a Working Class bloke to lay it all out in a post on a football forum?
You tell me, you seem to have the answer on most subjects