REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Paddingtonwolf]

God. I am absolutely PIG FUCKING SICK of people typing that booze line at me. Don't do it. It's actually deeply offensive and I won't put up with it any more.

If you think that deliberately proroguing parliament to restrict time to prevent a disastrous policy being railroaded through isn't actually worse than anything previously, despite it being the act of a dictator rather than a premier, then I don't know what else I can say about it.

 

[Premier Quality]

I think it takes being in power more than a few weeks to be worse than May. She was incompetent for three years. He might manage it, but it will take more than a political play to achieve that standard.

I’m not sure where the booze reaction comes from - you just seem very over emotional about it. (Brexit that is)

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Because I have been regularly accused of pissed posting. There was a time it was very true. But I really don't tend to do it at all now, but every time I post something "emotional" I get pissed paddy thrown in my face again and again. I have had enough of it and I won't tolerate it any more.

 

[Johnny75]

Get the ban hammer out Paddy. You know you want to.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I don't.

 

[Templeton Peck]

One of the almost certainties of this is a massive explosion of the Conservative Party. How the hell do grandees like Clarke, Heseltine and Major sit in the same party as ERG hardliners? It just doesn't seem politically or personally possible for them.

We'll see. Some of them make a lot of noise but fall short when it comes to actually doing something.

 

[Premier Quality]

Clarke is retiring anyway, and heseltine can’t be far off, he looks about 300.

John Major has retired and isn’t a peer either apparently.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That's why I said grandees. They are obviously much toward the veteran (or possibly even venerable) stage. However, they are figureheads to a more centrist and Europhile element of the party that is absolutely aligned against the ERG and their Farage style policy.

Equally, as much as I see cracks potentially occurring on that side of the house, I can envisage a momentum-blairite split in labour too.

If the big two did blow apart then FPTP would almost seem redundant as a voting system as we would have too many parties and would end up in perpetual coalition. Mind you, that seems to work okay in some other countries. There would be a lot of pacts made to get serviceable majorities.

 

[Premier Quality]

Would be interesting- we could do with a centrist party. Will only happen though if the no deal happens and then the likes of Hammond do it. I can’t see it though, it takes a long time to give up hope in a party you’ve been a big part of for years - took omuna and the others quite a while to leave labour despite all the efforts to unseat Jezza failing.

It’s a shame the TIG idiots muffed it up so badly tbh

 

[Tony Towner]

Would be interesting- we could do with a centrist party. Will only happen though if the no deal happens and then the likes of Hammond do it. I can’t see it though, it takes a long time to give up hope in a party you’ve been a big part of for years - took omuna and the others quite a while to leave labour despite all the efforts to unseat Jezza failing.

It’s a shame the TIG idiots muffed it up so badly tbh

The TIG's messed it up on day 2 when they let the likes of Soubry in. A social democratic party free from the current Labour movement may have gained some traction. They killed any hope of that when they made Europe more important than other social values.

 

[Templeton Peck]

The TIG's messed it up on day 2 when they let the likes of Soubry in. A social democratic party free from the current Labour movement may have gained some traction. They killed any hope of that when they made Europe more important than other social values.

Labour is a social democratic party now. Previously it was a party of the centre right. This is why so called 'centrist' parties are doomed to failure because in reality they aren't - they represent more of the same. TIG was always going to fail as they bought nothing of electoral value to the table.

 

[jdrodrigues]

It’s interesting, if there’s no deal, what do they think will happen? The exact same thing they are trying to avoid, Ireland has to put up a hard border.

The EU does not want the separation of the Irelands. But the union market is much bigger and more important than that situation, it involves 27 other countries. The backstop was the only feasible way, from what both parties gathered, to successfully maintain the status quo and not damage the single market anymore than it needs to.

Fact is, the Union does not owe anything to the UK. This whole shit storm was initiated by the UK and must be solved by the UK. The maintenance of the Union and all its assets is much more important than the UK.

 

[Tony Towner]

The EU does not want the separation of the Irelands. But the union market is much bigger and more important than that situation, it involves 27 other countries. The backstop was the only feasible way, from what both parties gathered, to successfully maintain the status quo and not damage the single market anymore than it needs to.

Fact is, the Union does not owe anything to the UK. This whole shit storm was initiated by the UK and must be solved by the UK. The maintenance of the Union and all its assets is much more important than the UK.

Think that somewhat misses the political need for a frictionless border between the North and South which is essential to ROI. It's a shitty play, but we are gambling on the EU blinking first. A hard border would literally cost lives when it inevitably leads to a resumption of terrorism which the Good Friday agreement broadly brought an end to. Everyone knows this just that we now have a Government of cunts who are prepared to go that low.

 

[Premier Quality]

Probably what we need to negotiate properly with the EU tbh - cunts negotiating with cunts.

 

[jdrodrigues]

Think that somewhat misses the political need for a frictionless border between the North and South which is essential to ROI. It's a shitty play, but we are gambling on the EU blinking first. A hard border would literally cost lives when it inevitably leads to a resumption of terrorism which the Good Friday agreement broadly brought an end to. Everyone knows this just that we now have a Government of cunts who are prepared to go that low.

The thing is, it is not a situation created by the EU but by the UK itself.

Should no deal happen, what might just happen is the UK folds and NI leaving the kingdom. RoI will have the EU to call into, within the common market and eurozone for aid. With a UK licking it's wounds a peripheral region will probably take a greater hit.

By peripheral I mean a place where industries, services and productions aren't localized, relying on a lot of transportation of goods.

But I am not that knowledgeable about Northern Ireland, so I might be grasping at straws and looking like an idiot.

 

[Johnny75]

Northern Ireland will never leave the umbrella of the UK without genocidal levels of bloodshed. I don't think the EU quite understands what will happen if a hard border comes in to Ireland let alone trying to annex NI.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hard border - IRA back active. Shit storm
NI leaves union - UDA, UVF and co back active. Shit storm.

 

[visage]

Probably what we need to negotiate properly with the EU tbh - cunts negotiating with cunts.

The EU arent being cunts. They're just using their power to negotiate on behalf of their members.....kinda like a union...

 

[visage]

Northern Ireland will never leave the umbrella of the UK without genocidal levels of bloodshed. I don't think the EU quite understands what will happen if a hard border comes in to Ireland let alone trying to annex NI.

And yet without a border the entire single market is compromised.

Hormone flooded beef comes into the UK market once Boris signs a deal with Trump. It then flows freely into the republic. And then ends up on the plates of anyone in the EU.

 

[Papper]

This is just wrong. You are re-writing history. There are no unilateral ideals of the leave vote. There are numerous ways in which we could have left the EU from barely leaving to all out and everything in between. Neither of the leave campaigns went all out campaigning on the idea of leaving without a deal and it was a political choice rather than an ideal to leave the single market and customs union.

The leave vote infers the UK has complete autonomy. The back-stop does not give the UK autonomy - it would have left the UK as a vassal state. If the UK had stayed in the customs union, single market etc etc it had not left the EU. The vote was to leave, not stay half in .... the fact they had three years to strike a new deal, a new relationship which they had abysmally failed at - therefore the blame lies fairly and squarely with May and those who refuse/d to accept the mandate given in the referendum ( a vote by the people of this country that has not been delivered ). Westminster is there to serve and enact the will of the people.