REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[The Saturday Boy]

No, he's said he'd support remain being on the ballot paper

But they would be seeking to do a deal with the EU...so it would be a choice of Labour’s deal or remain. Labour’s policy on the EU has evolved since the last election but fundamentally they would support a soft Brexit and this has never changed - customs union and single market, basically what Kier Starmer has been promoting for ever...nobody is actively pushing for Kier Starmer to be interim PM which says a lot. Basically, unless Labour agree to a referendum before an election (or Corbyn resigns) I don’t think there are the numbers in Parliament for any other alternative government.

The only viable route to remaining in the EU is for a tactical vote in an anti Tory general election because if Johnson gets a majority on a no deal Brexit manifesto it is done. Whether the Lib Dems are willing to countenance propping up Labour in a coalition while they negotiate a deal with the EU in the hope that the second referendum goes their way is a risk they may have to take. I don’t think SNP would be unhappy with Brexit in any form as it seems clear they see Brexit as a lever towards IndyRef2.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

But they would be seeking to do a deal with the EU...so it would be a choice of Labour’s deal or remain. Labour’s policy on the EU has evolved since the last election but fundamentally they would support a soft Brexit and this has never changed - customs union and single market, basically what Kier Starmer has been promoting for ever...nobody is actively pushing for Kier Starmer to be interim PM which says a lot. Basically, unless Labour agree to a referendum before an election (or Corbyn resigns) I don’t think there are the numbers in Parliament for any other alternative government.

The only viable route to remaining in the EU is for a tactical vote in an anti Tory general election because if Johnson gets a majority on a no deal Brexit manifesto it is done. Whether the Lib Dems are willing to countenance propping up Labour in a coalition while they negotiate a deal with the EU in the hope that the second referendum goes their way is a risk they may have to take. I don’t think SNP would be unhappy with Brexit in any form as it seems clear they see Brexit as a lever towards IndyRef2.

Truthfully, I don't get this Boris Buffoon nonsense. He is and always has been about the long game. There is no chance of a second vote. That ship has sailed. Boris will go to the Polls and guess what, he could well win. Not because he is good, but the alternative be it labour, liberal brexit or green don't appeal. Whatever you think having worked for both Boris and May even at a little distance Boris is can upgrade however unpalatable that may seem.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Truthfully, I don't get this Boris Buffoon nonsense. He is and always has been about the long game. There is no chance of a second vote. That ship has sailed. Boris will go to the Polls and guess what, he could well win. Not because he is good, but the alternative be it labour, liberal brexit or green don't appeal. Whatever you think having worked for both Boris and May even at a little distance Boris is can upgrade however unpalatable that may seem.

Johnson is a chancer, promoted beyond his capabilities, reliant on a carefully crafted public persona and a media that feeds into it. Corbyn is also promoted beyond his abilities but doesn’t benefit from the favours Johnson gets.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

You have conflated two different outcomes here - there is preventing no deal and then there is a second referendum, they are two different things but Corbyn has never said he would want remain to win a second vote so why would he back someone who did?

So far, Corbyn and the Labour Party are the only ones to outline what a vote of no confidence and a consequence would look like. Others are welcome to try and form some other type of government but none of them have any chance without Labour’s support as the second largest party in Parliament.

Parliament had the opportunity to legislate for a second referendum and there wasn’t the votes - the only thing that has ever commanded a clear majority was the triggering of Article 50 and in the absence of a deal that means leaving without one.

I have long argued that the only way out of this is a new Parliament because I wouldn’t be sure that this Parliament would respect the outcome of a second vote either.

Not conflating two things. The LibDems want a second referendum so if down the line that becomes reality having Corbyn heading up a Parliament that prevents No Deal and leads to a second vote could influence people in that vote.

Parliament did indeed have the opportunity to vote for a second vote but at the time it wasn't staring into the face of a No Deal.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Not conflating two things. The LibDems want a second referendum so if down the line that becomes reality having Corbyn heading up a Parliament that prevents No Deal and leads to a second vote could influence people in that vote.

Parliament did indeed have the opportunity to vote for a second vote but at the time it wasn't staring into the face of a No Deal.

But why would he back someone like Ken Clarke who wants to remain in the EU?

 

[Papper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsKWsPcRXE

The die is cast. The terms were set. The EU/Westminster have not been able to negotiate a position that accepts our Independence.

 

[Alan]

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/18/7521...CBNGgYmA4WUR4FMjuRObOeK9780t7n_It7ghRoISD5gj4

I assume this has been reported on by your media?

 

[SLA]

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/18/7521...CBNGgYmA4WUR4FMjuRObOeK9780t7n_It7ghRoISD5gj4

I assume this has been reported on by your media?

It has. Project Fear, innit.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/18/7521...CBNGgYmA4WUR4FMjuRObOeK9780t7n_It7ghRoISD5gj4

I assume this has been reported on by your media?

The response from those in favour of Brexit seems to be a collective shrug of the shoulders. They either don't believe it (they do struggle to believe in actual real things) or they don't care. The country is being taken over by people who are incredibly shit human beings.

 

[lemonjelly]

Agreed. It's like willy wonka gave the chocolate factory to augustus gloop instead.

I mean, it is their own report, and yet they say it is project fear?

 

[Penk Wolf]

The response from those in favour of Brexit seems to be a collective shrug of the shoulders. They either don't believe it (they do struggle to believe in actual real things) or they don't care. The country is being taken over by people who are incredibly shit human beings.

To be fair, it is worse case scenario and very unlikely.

 

[Tredman]

Not really, we already have considerable medicine shortages and probably only 1-2 weeks' worth of chemicals for drinking water.

 

[Sedgley Wolf]

To be fair, it is worse case scenario and very unlikely.

Looks like the government itself disagrees with you there mate.

A government source told the Sunday Times: "This is not Project Fear — this is the most realistic assessment of what the public face with no deal. These are likely, basic, reasonable scenarios — not the worst case.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Looks like the government itself disagrees with you there mate.

From the same document.

"I think there's a lot of scaremongering around and a lot of people are playing into Project Fear," he told Sky News when asked about the leaked document. "We will be fully prepared to leave without a deal on the 31st of October."

 

[Kenny]

A lot of the stuff said about how bad/good it will be I generally ignore but I will happily call bullshit on this part though.

We will be fully prepared to leave without a deal on the 31st of October."

 

[Penk Wolf]

A lot of the stuff said about how bad/good it will be I generally ignore but I will happily call bullshit on this part though.

Yeah, you can probably add un to the front of prepared.

 

[Sedgley Wolf]

From the same document.

"I think there's a lot of scaremongering around and a lot of people are playing into Project Fear," he told Sky News when asked about the leaked document. "We will be fully prepared to leave without a deal on the 31st of October."

Any reason why you're choosing to believe this soundbite from a Johnson crony over an in-depth government assessment?

 

[Penk Wolf]

Any reason you believe an unknown government source over one of Johnson’s cronies?

I don’t believe either to be honest, the truth will be somewhere in the middle.

 

[Johnny75]

Any reason you believe an unknown government source over one of Johnson’s cronies?

I don’t believe either to be honest, the truth will be somewhere in the middle.

Isn't the report a written assessment done by the Home Office?

 

[Kenny]

Just picked up some € for Thursday. Exchange rate joy on that.