REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

We know the numbers aren't there for a second referendum. Get Tories out, extend A50, call a GE whereby you are free vote to vote (or not) for a party offering a second referendum. The Lib Dems just don't want Corbyn. Even for a bit as a single issue govt. Ridiculous.

What's ridiculous about an opposition party not wanting Corbyn?

 

[Templeton Peck]

You can't seriously be advocating a process which is unelected power by the back door? Isn't this exactly how every military junta starts? Unseat the current government and install yourselves in a 'temporary' position until said military can install a government (Egypt seems to be the last place I remember this happening). It's a power grab however you look at it.

It would be the most undemocratic thing in my lifetime. Thankfully the Lib Dems told Corbyn to sling his hook.

It's parliamentary procedure. Govt loses vote of no confidence triggers a period of 14 days in which to form a new govt. Corbyn is proposing that he be head of this govt as leader of the second largest party. He's there simply to wrest control of the Brexit process from Johnson and call a GE. That's it. Single issue temporary govt. Even if he were to renege on this promise and pass his own Enabling Act how long do you think it would take for Parliament to bring him down - minutes or seconds?

 

[Johnny75]

It's parliamentary procedure. Govt loses vote of no confidence triggers a period of 14 days in which to form a new govt. Corbyn is proposing that he be head of this govt as leader of the second largest party. He's there simply to wrest control of the Brexit process from Johnson and call a GE. That's it. Single issue temporary govt. Even if he were to renege on this promise and pass his own Enabling Act how long do you think it would take for Parliament to bring him down - minutes or seconds?

Hiding behind procedure? Not very clever and also not a good move if you want to have a GE and get elected. Corbyn was never in favour of the EU and so lacks the credibility of any promise on a no deal Brexit. He also doesn't have the trust of the majority of the electorate so I don't see why anybody would see this as anything but an antidemocratic power grab.

It's still power via the back door and thankfully Jo Swinson has seen through this straight away and said as much.

 

[Tony Towner]

Swinson has said she'll support his suggestion if Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman lead it. Bluff well and truly called.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Hiding behind procedure? Not very clever and also not a good move if you want to have a GE and get elected. Corbyn was never in favour of the EU and so lacks the credibility of any promise on a no deal Brexit. He also doesn't have the trust of the majority of the electorate so I don't see why anybody would see this as anything but an antidemocratic power grab.

It's still power via the back door and thankfully Jo Swinson has seen through this straight away and said as much.

Nobody has the trust of the majority of the electorate.

Once he's extended A50 he's going to call a GE. There really is no threat here and it's all within the mechanism of the fixed term parliament act.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Swinson has said she'll support his suggestion if Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman lead it. Bluff well and truly called.

If she's opposed to No Deal she should be able to work with Corbyn on this single issue rather than worrying about whose other parties leaders are. She needs to vote with him twice - once against Johnson and another to trigger a GE. Not that difficult.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I find it nearly as surprising 10% of LibDems aren't in favour of Remain.

 

[Johnny75]

If she's opposed to No Deal she should be able to work with Corbyn on this single issue rather than worrying about whose other parties leaders are. She needs to vote with him twice - once against Johnson and another to trigger a GE. Not that difficult.

Are you struggling to grasp the concept that when somebody says it's a condition of the agreement they get put into no10 it's all about power? Given none of the leaders trust each other I think Swinson's suggestion is a good one don't you?

 

[Kenny]

I see everyones favourite dodgy brexit funding cuntsicle Aaron Banks has today managed to find a new level and wished death upon a 16 year old girl.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Yep - he's a fucking cunt

 

[Templeton Peck]

Are you struggling to grasp the concept that when somebody says it's a condition of the agreement they get put into no10 it's all about power? Given none of the leaders trust each other I think Swinson's suggestion is a good one don't you?

He has to be in power to extend A50. Parliament can't do it. The idea that the leader of the opposition wouldn't get first pop at replacing the defeated govt is bizarre. This is the quickest and easiest way to stop No Deal. It's Johnson and No Deal v Corbyn and 2nd ref and she needs to choose.

 

[Johnny75]

He has to be in power to extend A50. Parliament can't do it. The idea that the leader of the opposition wouldn't get first pop at replacing the defeated govt is bizarre. This is the quickest and easiest way to stop No Deal. It's Johnson and No Deal v Corbyn and 2nd ref and she needs to choose.

Going straight down the blackmail route then. That'll work.

Of course it isn't a binary choice and Jo Swinson could say that she could be in no10 to prevent no deal. She hasn't accepted it and has suggested a temporary government without temporary leaders on this one issue to prevent one thing from happening. It would then be a GE and Corbyn is free to lead his cultists/ nut jobs into power.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Going straight down the blackmail route then. That'll work.

Of course it isn't a binary choice and Jo Swinson could say that she could be in no10 to prevent no deal. She hasn't accepted it and has suggested a temporary government without temporary leaders on this one issue to prevent one thing from happening. It would then be a GE and Corbyn is free to lead his cultists/ nut jobs into power.

She really couldn't. She has nothing like the same level of legitimacy. May as well ask Conor Coady to do it.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

So we have to accept Corbyn doing it? Sorry, that won't wash. It's a momentum power grab attempt no matter how much you think it is ace.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

So we have to accept Corbyn doing it? Sorry, that won't wash. It's a momentum power grab attempt no matter how much you think it is ace.

As the leader of the opposition it would be seen as quite normal in any other circumstances, the Prime Minister needs only have the confidence of the House and should therefore have an attempt and therefore he sets out the terms on which he would seek that confidence. He can’t make MPs of other parties vote for him, I doubt he will be able to count on all his own MPs either...although any Labour MP who didn’t vote for him is unlikely to be a Labour MP much longer.

If Corbyn fails to have the confidence of the House, other options may be considered but they may also not have sufficient numbers and in the absence of any government being formed we’d be heading for a general election and the possibility of no deal.

The issue here isn’t that Corbyn would be PM, but that the second referendum would not be held before an election which leaves open the possibility of Brexit, either by an election returning a Conservative majority or a Labour deal with the EU that beats Remain in a second referendum.

Corbyn entering no.10, even for a matter of weeks, is a huge political risk - whoever is in Downing Street on 31 October will likely take a hit if we don’t leave the EU and I am sure Johnson won’t be too upset if it’s not him.

 

[Templeton Peck]

So we have to accept Corbyn doing it? Sorry, that won't wash. It's a momentum power grab attempt no matter how much you think it is ace.

Power grab is a ridiculous term for what is suggested. He's going to call a GE and fuck off - worst power grab ever. If he passes the enabling act and rivals start disappearing then you'll have my apologies!

 

[Wilf Wolf]

If Corbyn genuinely wants to prevent No Deal he can just as easily back someone like Ken Clarke. Like it or nor Corbyn is widely detested by many of the electorate and having Corbyn heading it up could damage the chances of Remain winning a second vote.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

If Corbyn genuinely wants to prevent No Deal he can just as easily back someone like Ken Clarke. Like it or nor Corbyn is widely detested by many of the electorate and having Corbyn heading it up could damage the chances of Remain winning a second vote.

You have conflated two different outcomes here - there is preventing no deal and then there is a second referendum, they are two different things but Corbyn has never said he would want remain to win a second vote so why would he back someone who did?

So far, Corbyn and the Labour Party are the only ones to outline what a vote of no confidence and a consequence would look like. Others are welcome to try and form some other type of government but none of them have any chance without Labour’s support as the second largest party in Parliament.

Parliament had the opportunity to legislate for a second referendum and there wasn’t the votes - the only thing that has ever commanded a clear majority was the triggering of Article 50 and in the absence of a deal that means leaving without one.

I have long argued that the only way out of this is a new Parliament because I wouldn’t be sure that this Parliament would respect the outcome of a second vote either.

 

[lemonjelly]

He has said labour would back remain in a new referendum though, hasn't he?

 

[Tony Towner]

He has said labour would back remain in a new referendum though, hasn't he?

No, he's said he'd support remain being on the ballot paper