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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

thehistorymakers said:
To have some bollocks, working class people have been shit on for 40 years. We have spoken, you have lost in a democratic referendum. You new the rules and you lost. Things will take time. It's a fucking disgrace how people are running their own country down in favour of the German bullies.
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Didn't vote mate because I didn't feel that I should.

I live in France and have no intention on moving back to Britain at any time so I decided to abstain.
 
I suppose it's easy enough to dismiss everything you don't want to see isn't it THM? You don't want to hear expert opinion, analysis, or even fact because in your own words you "made your mind up years ago, and nothing is going to change that"

"We've had enough of experts" - Gove. Quite.
 
I'd also ask whether it's really healthy to promote a situation where 'we' won and 'you' lost, the country already has a scar of division running right through it after Thursday, why would you want to reinforce that? And can you really lump Remain voters into one homogeneous lump anyway? I'm sure there are people on here alone who would identify as working class but voted to Remain. I wouldn't personally for the record, I know that as Penk said the other day I am not especially typical of 'the norm' (but what can you do, I can't change who I am).
 
Conservative Leave politicians don't have a plan because they neither expected nor wanted to win. To them it was entirely about the power grab within their own party. Even had we voted to Remain, Cameron and Osborne would have been severely weakened and the challengers would have positioned themselves nicely to take over. They weren't expecting to actually have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

For my part, I'm fucking fuming that I have had to take part in this appalling sham of democracy at all.
 
Democracy shemocracy, the Brexit campaign and the referendum has damaged democracy greatly, cynicism with the political process was high enough anyway. They've stuck their fingers up at the public, and shouted "you mugs".
 
machin05 said:
https://clairebroadley.com/2016/06/26/so-you-want-me-to-be-happy/

Strikes many a chord with how I'm feeling.
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Great piece. Sums up exactly how I'm feeling and has just left me a hell of a lot angrier.

I wish I could print it off and put it on the desks of all my co-workers (yes, they ALL voted Leave) who voted Leave because of, you know, immigrants. I'd want to tell them that this is how they have made me feel and this is why I am so angry and not laughing and joking and joining in with their offensive anti-immigrant rhetoric.
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
Democracy shemocracy, the Brexit campaign and the referendum has damaged democracy greatly, cynicism with the political process was high enough anyway. They've stuck their fingers up at the public, and shouted "you mugs".
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I wonder if it had been the same if you had won. This os all because you got out voted.
 
Fucking hell, have you been on the poppers this morning or something?
 
Hmm

Had Leave written a clear pathway document as the SNP did, then I am pretty sure they would be able to say "Dave - we have a clearly laid out plan of action. We are ready to go, step aside and let us press the green button on democracy."

Their plan has not been prepared. And it is because a) they didn't expect to win and b) if they did, they expected Dave to hang around and sort it.

So now we have an effective power vacuum. And there is no way that Cameron will step down before October. The leave campaign needs to decide on the leader it wants to take this forward, maybe grab a prominent remain campaigner who hasn't been too strident (urrghgh - May springs to mind) to ride on the ticket and hopefully allow some pacification of the remain vote, and then present a clear plan of what will happen as soon as Cameron hands the keys over in October.

Where is that? Nowhere to be seen. And every backslide that Boris or whomever makes on open borders or the future model is going to be attacked by Farage who wants complete and utter exit.

So we have a split Labour party that is in serious danger of a very damaging implosion. A totally split Conservative Party that basically is going to do nothing in government. A split Leave campaign is coming unless a lot of tapdancing on eggshells is carried out.

Fucking hell, the only one saying anything vaguely coherent, and, you know, laying out plans, is Nicola Sturgeon. I spent a lot of time thinking she was a foul pestilence on British politics. This farce has shown she is actually probably the most statesmanlike of the lot of them.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I'd also ask whether it's really healthy to promote a situation where 'we' won and 'you' lost, the country already has a scar of division running right through it after Thursday, why would you want to reinforce that? And can you really lump Remain voters into one homogeneous lump anyway? I'm sure there are people on here alone who would identify as working class but voted to Remain. I wouldn't personally for the record, I know that as Penk said the other day I am not especially typical of 'the norm' (but what can you do, I can't change who I am).
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I dont want to change how you are. Just sick of the fucking Germans and French giving it the big one.
 
THM's just a eurosceptic quote bot. It's not programmed for cogent argument or to respond to questions, just to spit out a very limited amount of words in a random formation. The sooner people stop responding to it, the sooner Farage will unplug it.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Hmm

Had Leave written a clear pathway document as the SNP did, then I am pretty sure they would be able to say "Dave - we have a clearly laid out plan of action. We are ready to go, step aside and let us press the green button on democracy."

Their plan has not been prepared. And it is because a) they didn't expect to win and b) if they did, they expected Dave to hang around and sort it.

So now we have an effective power vacuum. And there is no way that Cameron will step down before October. The leave campaign needs to decide on the leader it wants to take this forward, maybe grab a prominent remain campaigner who hasn't been too strident (urrghgh - May springs to mind) to ride on the ticket and hopefully allow some pacification of the remain vote, and then present a clear plan of what will happen as soon as Cameron hands the keys over in October.

Where is that? Nowhere to be seen. And every backslide that Boris or whomever makes on open borders or the future model is going to be attacked by Farage who wants complete and utter exit.

So we have a split Labour party that is in serious danger of a very damaging implosion. A totally split Conservative Party that basically is going to do nothing in government. A split Leave campaign is coming unless a lot of tapdancing on eggshells is carried out.

$#@!ing hell, the only one saying anything vaguely coherent, and, you know, laying out plans, is Nicola Sturgeon. I spent a lot of time thinking she was a foul pestilence on British politics. This farce has shown she is actually probably the most statesmanlike of the lot of them.
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She is an opportunist. She hasn't got a good record of measuring her people's intentions in referendums.
 
At least she has some form of plan to deal with fall-out from Thursday. Now, I am not saying it is the right plan, or even a good plan. I'm not in Scotland so how should I know. However. She has publicised it very clearly. She called the Scottish cabinet in on Saturday and got on with planning what needs to happen.

She may be an opportunist. But she isn't a power vacuum, so I cast my eyes northward with not a little bit of envy.
 
machin05 said:
https://clairebroadley.com/2016/06/26/so-you-want-me-to-be-happy/

Strikes many a chord with how I'm feeling.
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A few quotes from that:

The house that I am sitting in will lose 18% of its value. The food in my kitchen will cost 10% more.
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We lost science funding. Regional funding.
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In my part of South Wales houses are cheap enough as it is. My family and I worked hard to add to it's value and now most of that has been slashed away meaning we've lost a hell of a lot of money there. As for food prices, we already spend more than we'd like and this is before sprog #2 is weened...

Science funding affects my career and everyone else who works at a University in Wales. As my current contract winds down I'll be lucky to get a job doing research that's within reach as now I can't afford to move home and I'd rather not have to do something else having studied for getting on for twelve years... Regional funding is the worse (and yes, Gove had the audacity to say they would cough up the shortfall). This will see the Cardiff Metro and M4 relief mothballed, along with many other projects in Wales. As for the councils, they have already cut everything: libraries, parks, swimming pools, police, fire service, etc, all gone thanks to Conservative austerity and now we can expect more.

Worried doesn't even cover it, but I fail to see what I can do?

Well played Wales, well played :facepalm:
 
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