REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deutsch Wolf]

I can't as I've already said but I would be quite upset by being branded a liar on this point. I shouldn't have shared who this was by as it was a closed meeting.

I work in the core of manufacturing I. This country and I can tell you this manufacturing is tamping up not down.

All the key indicators for so called experts have been already wildly wrong and yet you talk of magic beans.

I work closely with Mills CNC they are major major players in the core of manufacturing and things are getting better and better despite all predictions.

I need to see evidence I only see biased media reporting, spin and emotion.

Show me some facts and I'll happily accept it.

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I didn't say you were lying, I don't doubt you've seen it.

I'm telling you - without seeing it - that it's a casserole of nonsense.

Give me the next month to cook up a lovely glossy document (laminated) of how Wolves will be better off in the long run if we sell Jota, Neves and Boly for a combined £60m and I'll do it, so long as you pay me. It'll be total fucking horseshit though.

 

[Penk Wolf]

You know it will definitively impact on millions of British people yeah, negatively? And they aren't in a position to sort of wait for two years until it hopefully levels out?

What happens to them? We already have a shit economy.

Really? And what evidence do you have of this?

We have a shit economy? Nope, far from it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Really? And what evidence do you have of this?

We have a shit economy? Nope, far from it.

1) Every economic projection, except Andrew Minford and Siggy's private documents

2) Yes we do, it's awful

 

[Penk Wolf]

I don't think your analogy works here as if it were just about trade I might see your point. But it isn't this is about everything people related, research, intelligence sharing, military cooperation, law and lots more I don't know.

Immigration is such a small part of this but yet a point blown up out of all proportion.

As I said before I'm a long way from being socialist and I don't think the EU is a socialist entity.

Lack of EU migrants is the biggest problem the UK has, not the other way around.

 

[Siggy]

I didn't say you were lying, I don't doubt you've seen it.

I'm telling you - without seeing it - that it's a casserole of nonsense.

Give me the next month to cook up a lovely glossy document (laminated) of how Wolves will be better off in the long run if we sell Jota, Neves and Boly for a combined £60m and I'll do it, so long as you pay me. It'll be total fucking horseshit though.

OK but in that sense we could be. I see where you are going with it as its a huge risk. It relies on us using our money wisely.

But take the EU, we won't leave fully on WTO terms it will never happen. We will have part of an agreement by that pointat the least.

It all makes my head hurt.

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[Penk Wolf]

1) Every economic projection, except Andrew Minford and Siggy's private documents

2) Yes we do, it's awful

Try talking to people that are actually out there rather than those that guess what’s out there and you’ll see a total different picture.

The economy is booming and the only thing that is holding the economy back is lack of resources.

 

[Johnny75]

Lack of EU migrants is the biggest problem the UK has, not the other way around.

I agree with you. We're driving talent out of country when we need them the most.

Which is why I despise Farage and his rhetoric, he's a divisive, vapid chancer who is only in it for himself. A complete narcissist who doesn't really care about the EU or anybody else except himself.

That's been seen every time I see an interviewer ask him a challenging question on immigration or policy.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

OK but in that sense we could be. I see where you are going with it as its a huge risk. It relies on us using our money wisely.

But take the EU, we won't leave fully on WTO terms it will never happen. We will have part of an agreement by that pointat the least.

It all makes my head hurt.

But Farage's whole point is No Deal?

There are no deals or agreements in that scenario. He's proposing that we rip up everything. With no plan on Day One.

Surely you see the absurdity here.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Try talking to people that are actually out there rather than those that guess what’s out there and you’ll see a total different picture.

The economy is booming and the only thing that is holding the economy back is lack of resources.

With respect Craig you don't know who I do and don't talk to.

 

[Johnny75]

OK but in that sense we could be. I see where you are going with it as its a huge risk. It relies on us using our money wisely.

But take the EU, we won't leave fully on WTO terms it will never happen. We will have part of an agreement by that pointat the least.

It all makes my head hurt.

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WTO is literally what Farage is campaigning for. Along with the pretend soldier and the worlds worst Victorian author.

 

[Tony Towner]

If people cant see the racism in the Farage poster when contrasting it with the Nazi one then they are either being willfully ignorant or downright stupid.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

If I had access to them I would gladly share but there were 4 independent reviews all of which had similar conclusions. These were by Mazak UK based in Worcester so by all means if anyone you know works for then they may well have seen the same thing. In very basic terms they concluded that the short term impact would be negative but longer term would be beneficial.

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Can't believe no-one bothered to even Google this company to check their credentials, no wonder their financial predictions of a Japanese machine tool manufacturer aren't sharing front pages with global financial institutions. They're not going to be forecasting anything for the economy as a whole are they? It's going to be merely what's in their interest within their market, just because one company thinks things will turn out well for them doesn't mean the whole thing is going to be a success. I could be wrong though, pretty sure the Wetherspoons guy is pretty stoked for it and James Dyson is already moving his pieces around in anticipation for the big kick off.

 

[Siggy]

But Farage's whole point is No Deal?

There are no deals or agreements in that scenario. He's proposing that we rip up everything. With no plan on Day One.

Surely you see the absurdity here.

No it's a point of negotiation, you take that away and we are helpless. No deal damages both UK and EU neither wants that but you have to make it clear that we are leaving without a full agreement to get the best from it.

I negotiate with major corporations, good god I would have loathed May's position but she failed miserably.

We need them no doubt but they need us too and there is much common ground we can agree on before we leave, plus we already have deals lined up for WTO so it was never a WTO only scenario.

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[Deutsch Wolf]

No Deal is not a negotiation point.

"Siggy, it's your round"

"No Dan, it's yours"

"You'll get it or I'll eat my own shoes"

Well clearly I'm not going to do that as it's patently ludicrous, so you'd tell me to fuck off.

 

[Siggy]

Can't believe no-one bothered to even Google this company to check their credentials, no wonder their financial predictions of a Japanese machine tool manufacturer aren't sharing front pages with global financial institutions. They're not going to be forecasting anything for the economy as a whole are they? It's going to be merely what's in their interest within their market, just because one company thinks things will turn out well for them doesn't mean the whole thing is going to be a success. I could be wrong though, pretty sure the Wetherspoons guy is pretty stoked for it and James Dyson is already moving his pieces around in anticipation for the big kick off.

Point is they are investing in the UK and they plan to continue to do so. The Japanese are more anal than anyone and have more faith than most. The machine tool industry is quite complicated as I'm sure you appreciate but for me it was surprisingly positive towards Brexit.

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[Johnny75]

Mogg is a disaster capitalist, he's already mitigated his risk by moving funds to Dublin so he definitely wants WTO rules and a no deal Brexit. It's the only way he wins.

But it's not all about money for the rest of us and this is lost on so many people.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Mogg is a disaster capitalist, he's already mitigated his risk by moving funds to Dublin so he definitely wants WTO rules and a no deal Brexit. It's the only way he wins.

But it's not all about money for the rest of us and this is lost on so many people.

His Dad literally wrote a book on disaster capitalism.

But good old Moggy will see us through, la.

 

[Siggy]

No Deal is not a negotiation point.

"Siggy, it's your round"

"No Dan, it's yours"

"You'll get it or I'll eat my own shoes"

Well clearly I'm not going to do that as it's patently ludicrous, so you'd tell me to fuck off.

It's not that simple though is it. If you don't buy a round it's no biggie but if we don't have agreements for movements of parts in JIT companies and set tariffs things are going to go south quickly. Interestingly some of those companies including JLR have further committed to continued investment. Maybe they know something we don't.

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[Deutsch Wolf]

It's not that simple though is it. If you don't buy a round it's no biggie but if we don't have agreements for movements of parts in JIT companies and set tariffs things are going to go south quickly. Interestingly some of those companies including JLR have further committed to continued investment. Maybe they know something we don't.

Look. I'm sure your business (whatever it is) will be fine. And I'm all for that. Thumbs up. Happy days. I don't like to see a man in the gutter.

The rest of us aren't in that boat, no matter what your Mazak UK document says.

And what if you were to lose your job amongst this apocalypse?

 

[Siggy]

Look. I'm sure your business (whatever it is) will be fine. And I'm all for that. Thumbs up. Happy days. I don't like to see a man in the gutter.

The rest of us aren't in that boat, no matter what your Mazak UK document says.

And what if you were to lose your job amongst this apocalypse?

I work in extraction mostly but get involved in all sorts. Yes there is that possibility I could lose my job but I believe in myself and have never been short of job offers due to my results.

I am still left leaning on many issues and would hate to see people suffer but if the end result is more positive then I will support it.

I suspect there is much more to come and I do think a 2nd referendum will happen, my vote will be in the balance as will others I just hope the tone changes similar to this exchange which I have enjoyed.

Good night all and thanks for the debate.

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