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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Amusing that May is so very keen on bullying and bribing MPs into changing their minds on her deal, and giving them multiple opportunities to vote on the same deal, but when it comes to giving the plebs another chance to have a say... that's apparently beyond the pale. Not that I'm a huge fan of the idea of a second referendum, but the hypocrisy is notable.
 
Agreed. I'm also exceptionally confused by the idea constantly put out there that another vote breaks democracy. I'm unsure what else other than a vote actually demonstrates democracy.

I also have a lot of sympathy with the perspective I've read elsewhere that the power/influence the DUP has on this very issue is significant, yet the influence the scottish/welsh assemblies have is minimal.

Lastly, it looks like the decision will be made by those to the extreme right - the dup, the erg and so on (btw I'd include conservatives like May in that category by looking at her vile draconian policies and voting record). I am very uncomfortable with the future, my future, being shaped and designed by a load of hard righters.
 
This will probably annoy Cyber (so worth putting up :windmilling:) but in some ways this is quite a good argument against PR. I used to work with a Jewish guy who was vehemently against PR because, he argued, it had the potential to give minority parties with extreme views too much influence over policy. This was the scenario he was envisaging -a weak government with a tiny or no majority, effectively being held to ransom by far right loons.
 
This will probably annoy Cyber (so worth putting up :windmilling:) but in some ways this is quite a good argument against PR. I used to work with a Jewish guy who was vehemently against PR because, he argued, it had the potential to give minority parties with extreme views too much influence over policy. This was the scenario he was envisaging -a weak government with a tiny or no majority, effectively being held to ransom by far right loons.

Yep. It can happen. No it doesnt annoy me as its fact. I just have seen too many injustuices caused by first past the post . At least the coalition kept Cameron in some check in some ways. There would also be a different negotioan mindset if youre PR elected. You know that you need others to govern effectively.

While I am at it this hit my facebook today
Ever heard of the Lisbon Treaty? Course you have. Know what it means to us? Here's what.......

If We Remain in EU KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES:
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar ect
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
PROBABLE WORST-CASE OUTCOMES
1: The UK will become nothing more than a vassal protectorate state
2: With the continuation of freedom of movement, the population of the UK will continue to grow at a rate higher than pre-referendum level ranging between 400,000 to 675,000 per annum.
2.1; Which will result in not just wage suppression but even wage depression.
2.2; More than 500,000 new homes to be built annually (We are currently only managing 125,000)
2.3; House prices and rents will skyrocket annually by 23%
2.4; Class sizes in schools would have to increase by 50% if not even double
2.5; The NHS will become solely an emergency service of care provider as they would no longer be able to cope with the numbers of people needing care other than those of emergency.
2.6; GP’s will become triage centres
2.7; Public transport will become permit holders use only
2.8; Only those that did a serious crime namely murder will be given a custodial sentence
2.9; The Court system becomes fully overrun to the point extreme cases only being heard and the rest being given an automatic fine
2.10; Emergency services collapsing for not being able to cope with the scale of things
2.11; Social care becoming solely private social care for those who can afford it.
2.12; Homelessness to increase by over 28% annually
2.13; Unemployment to increase annually by 37%
2.14; The Benefit system to collapse fully to the point of the return of soup kitchens and even workhouse existence
2.15; Crime to increase by over 59% annually
2.16; Shanty towns to become the norm standard of housing
3: Because the UK would no longer be able to make its own trade deals, nor control its tariffs or quotas, Food prices would increase by over 25% and the cost of living would go up by over 39%
4: Because the UK would lose its oil and gas rights it would also lose the revenue from taxation on them, resulting in a loss of over 600 billion per year in taxation revenue
5: Because the UK will become a member state its percentage share of the vote on any new laws, regulations, treaties and everything else is at current member numbers 3.57% of the vote. That’s right folks the UK say in the EU if it was to remain a member is 3.57% total
Everything I have put thus far is just the very extreme tip of the iceberg that is ready to sink the UK if we remain a member of the EU.
Everything is verifiable by the sources I have already outlined above and is something the EU propaganda machine as well as our very own government are not telling you.
Remainers keep on bleating about that the people didn’t know all of the facts
If that’s the case then why are they failing to tell the people the downside or remaining a member of the EU.
ASK YOURSELVES THAT FACT AND FIND OUT THE TRUE HARD FACTS FOR YOURSELF

True , false, Project fear, Bullshit? I tried looking at the treaty and lost the will to live so some genuine feedback and truths would be nice to either debunk it as bollocks through fact or to accept there is truth. Me I dunno. :confused-smiley-013
 
All of it.

It's just a total fabrication.
 
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
Is this false or true?

2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
Is this false or true?

3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.

Is this false or true?-
 
D01gGFKWsAc_HhA.jpg
 
False or true? Who writes it that way round?

Haven't we had this discussion?
 
Or if you want a full, point-by-point breakdown...

https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1087258784001654784

Or you could have just believed me when I said it was drivel :D

Yes but I want to shoot these people down too as it doesnt help either side. If its true thats different. If its bollocks give me the ammunition to say its bollocks. Remember as a brexiter if I tell another that its bollocks it cant be " project fear". I hadnt seen this before, couldnt find any detail and here seemed to be the most sensible place to get a quick, accurate reply. Cheers all.
 
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So she shares our frustration! Fuck off! She is causing the frustration with her delaying, then revote and then wanting the same vote done a 3rd time as the clock ticks down.

At this very moment it looks like 50 or so Tory cuntknuckles and the DUP have decided the future of this country and our "leader" has let them do it as she is comfy inside Number 10 and doesn't want to move out.
 
Commentators seems to think this is the precursor to a no deal as the Parliamentary vote only ruled out no deal at the end of March
 
Commentators seems to think this is the precursor to a no deal as the Parliamentary vote only ruled out no deal at the end of March

May is sending us over the cliff edge here. Parliament needs to step in and remove her decision making and take back control.
 
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