REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Tredman]

ahh, youre not offended when I get called a C... but youre greviously wounded by the simple analogy. Hypocrite.

Who's to say I wasn't offended for you? I'm literally sat here crying in my coffee.

Doesn't change the fact that domestic violence is not really any way analogous to a community of friendly countries (apart from us obvs).

 

[Tom Hark]

While I agree that a Norway option is considerably better than anything else currently on the table, what would be the point of it? We would still have to accept the 'four freedoms' of the EU. It would basically be pretty much the same as being in the EU but without being able to influence anything, surely? It would be a pointless waste of the last 3 years and we'd be much better off staying in the EU.

While this is largely true (I think there's some sort of cosmetic immigration cap), a Norway+ Brexit deal passed in Parliament would have the advantage of complying with the referendum result, so giving uneasy but unconverted leave supporters a face-saving argument and hopefully avoiding some of the more extreme, or at least prolonged, nastiness were the leave result to be overturned in a second vote. (And what if, God forbid, it wasn't?) So far as influence is concerned, I don't think anyone in the EU will take much notice of anything we say now even if we stay in. All our people there will likely be walking round with 'Kick Me' Post-its on their backs.

 

[Del Woppio]

It's the EU's fault that Cameron promised something he couldn't deliver?

Cunt means no more than plonker imo BTW, don't be a snowflake. If you don't like swearing use a filter

 

[Deleted Cyber]

It's the EU's fault that Cameron promised something he couldn't deliver?

Cunt means no more than plonker imo BTW, don't be a snowflake. If you don't like swearing use a filter

strike two.

youre on a roll.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Edit: wow, DDW, synched euroboys.

*hi-fives* :2xGay:

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Cyber with possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen.

We probably had the best deal of anyone in the EU yet it is comparable to being a victim of domestic violence?

Cameron wasn't shafted by anyone apart from himself. He promised something that wasn't achievable, a bit like the entire Leave campaign.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

While this is largely true (I think there's some sort of cosmetic immigration cap), a Norway+ Brexit deal passed in Parliament would have the advantage of complying with the referendum result, so giving uneasy but unconverted leave supporters a face-saving argument and hopefully avoiding some of the more extreme, or at least prolonged, nastiness were the leave result to be overturned in a second vote. (And what if, God forbid, it wasn't?) So far as influence is concerned, I don't think anyone in the EU will take much notice of anything we say now even if we stay in. All our people there will likely be walking round with 'Kick Me' Post-its on their backs.

I don't like all this talk of + options. Why would the EU give us a Norway + option? Wouldn't Norway then be a bit pissed off that we had a better deal than them?

 

[Del Woppio]

Free vote on malthouse tonight

 

[SLA]

I don't like all this talk of + options. Why would the EU give us a Norway + option? Wouldn't Norway then be a bit pissed off that we had a better deal than them?

Haven't Norway already said they'd veto anything like Norway+?

 

[Del Woppio]

There's been no indication that this would be acceptable to the EU at all, so it's like me telling taytay that I'll stop proposing if she gives me her car

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Cyber with possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen.

We probably had the best deal of anyone in the EU yet it is comparable to being a victim of domestic violence?

Cameron wasn't shafted by anyone apart from himself. He promised something that wasn't achievable, a bit like the entire Leave campaign.

if it was so good why did we moan about everything?
1. Why did we not go Euro?
2. Why did we not go Schenghen?
3. Why did we have to have Vetos?
4. why were we called the " petulant child" of eu?

No actually, dont try and answer them. Its not a debate for you. There is no mid ground. You want to stay and have absolutely no idea as to why anyone would want to leave, hence my simple if crass analogy.

 

[Langers]

if it was so good why did we moan about everything?
1. Why did we not go Euro?
2. Why did we not go Schenghen?
3. Why did we have to have Vetos?
4. why were we called the " petulant child" of eu?

No actually, dont try and answer them. Its not a debate for you. There is no mid ground. You want to stay and have absolutely no idea as to why anyone would want to leave, hence my simple if crass analogy.

Before the referendum, very few people gave a fuck about the EU. Fewer still knew the slightest thing about it.

However, lots of people don't like forrin people and get a bit antsy when they see someone walk past them who looks and sounds differently. Add a few social media soundbites into the mix and hey presto! It's the EU's fault.

(BTW I would like to point out that I know you had reservations about the EU and I don't mean to include you in this group of voters. But the sad fact is that a LOT of people think this way, and still do).

 

[jdrodrigues]

if it was so good why did we moan about everything?
1. Why did we not go Euro?
2. Why did we not go Schenghen?
3. Why did we have to have Vetos?
4. why were we called the " petulant child" of eu?

No actually, dont try and answer them. Its not a debate for you. There is no mid ground. You want to stay and have absolutely no idea as to why anyone would want to leave, hence my simple if crass analogy.

Exactly because of the underlined questions you wrote. The UK has been allowed to cherry pick the treaties on which it entered. Complete disregard for the rest of the now 27 countries that are rowing in the same general direction.

The answer to the others is "because you didn't want to", and all us other member state let you get away with it because we would rather that you stay on your terms than leave.

The questions you posed further demonstrate a certain good will from the EU regarding the participation of the UK.

This does not mean that the UK shouldn't be allowed these options. It's your/their prerogative to ratify a treaty or not. I'm not making a judgment here.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

if it was so good why did we moan about everything?
1. Why did we not go Euro?
2. Why did we not go Schenghen?
3. Why did we have to have Vetos?
4. why were we called the " petulant child" of eu?

No actually, dont try and answer them. Its not a debate for you. There is no mid ground. You want to stay and have absolutely no idea as to why anyone would want to leave, hence my simple if crass analogy.

I didn't moan about anything. However, I would guess that the people who did so did it because they had years of the British media telling them how awful the EU is and lying about all the awful things they were making us do and how terrible all these foreign invaders to our beautiful country were.

The points you raised just prove how we already had a great deal and why Cameron was never going to gain much else.

I still genuinely don't understand what was so bad about our EU membership in the first place? Maybe you can enlighten me.

 

[machin05]

I didn't moan about anything. However, I would guess that the people who did so did it because they had years of the British media telling them how awful the EU is and lying about all the awful things they were making us do and how terrible all these foreign invaders to our beautiful country were.

The points you raised just prove how we already had a great deal and why Cameron was never going to gain much else.

I still genuinely don't understand what was so bad about our EU membership in the first place? Maybe you can enlighten me.

Something about bendy bananas??

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Exactly because of the underlined questions you wrote. The UK has been allowed to cherry pick the treaties on which it entered. Complete disregard for the rest of the now 27 countries that are rowing in the same general direction.

The answer to the others is "because you didn't want to", and all us other member state let you get away with it because we would rather that you stay on your terms than leave.

The questions you posed further demonstrate a certain good will from the EU regarding the participation of the UK.

This does not mean that the UK shouldn't be allowed these options. It's your/their prerogative to ratify a treaty or not. I'm not making a judgment here.

yay!

And finally a remainer understands, albeit in reverse.

You cannot be a member of a club and not agree with the rules. You dont play golf with a snooker cue

In June 2016 I stated on here that my reason for voting out were because we were either" all in" or "all out" . I likened it in the last 3 years to a marriage where the pre nup is agreed in principle but disliked by both parties.

If the EU REALLY wanted us to stay they would have made the concessions/ changed the direction/ changed the ethos. It was blindingly obvious that one day either now or in the future the intended aims of the EU and the direction the UK wanted were not aligned and that one day it would give. It has. Now its fallout. Its a real real shame. The EEC was sooooo good and gave soooo much opportunity, better trade, freedom of movement , workers rights, blah blah. But post maastrict, post 2006 the EU and the UK have been further and further apart it seems.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The analogy is't simple. It isn't crass. It's wrong.

Domestic violence involves serious wrongdoing by the abuser. The EU has done nothing wrong here.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

In June 2016 I stated on here that my reason for voting out were because we were either" all in" or "all out" . I likened it in the last 3 years to a marriage where the pre nup is agreed in principle but disliked by both parties.

So basically you wanted us to leave as we had a better deal than everybody else? It seems bizarre to want to give up the benefits of EU membership for that reason.

If the EU REALLY wanted us to stay they would have made the concessions/ changed the direction/ changed the ethos.

You have already listed some of the 'perks' that we had - out of interest, what extra concessions do you think the EU were at fault for not giving us?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Cyber, as I recall you kept banging on about how we would have to adopt the Euro, join Schengen, adopt metric measures (why this was an issue I don't know) and frankly it just wasn't true.

Your initial position was not based on reason and there was no inevitability to this shitshow. It is entirely of our own making, caused by the absolute worst Government we have ever had (spanning both Cameron and May) and a pig ignorant, thick as mince electorate (some of whom are racist, and are now emboldened racists).

 

[jdrodrigues]

yay!

And finally a remainer understands, albeit in reverse.

You cannot be a member of a club and not agree with the rules. You dont play golf with a snooker cue

In June 2016 I stated on here that my reason for voting out were because we were either" all in" or "all out" . I likened it in the last 3 years to a marriage where the pre nup is agreed in principle but disliked by both parties.

If the EU REALLY wanted us to stay they would have made the concessions/ changed the direction/ changed the ethos. It was blindingly obvious that one day either now or in the future the intended aims of the EU and the direction the UK wanted were not aligned and that one day it would give. It has. Now its fallout. Its a real real shame. The EEC was sooooo good and gave soooo much opportunity, better trade, freedom of movement , workers rights, blah blah. But post maastrict, post 2006 the EU and the UK have been further and further apart it seems.

But that is due more to the UK than the EU. The EU is the collective of 28 countries. Each individual country makes concessions of their sovereignty to a supra institution, in order to work together for the good of all. The UK has conceded less than everyone else.

All of them get something in return. Due to the existence of this supra national institution, every citizen has a higher quality and standard living than before.

Why should the EU concede even more ground than it has to keep a percentage of the UK people happy? You didn't sign the treaties you didn't like because you didn't want to. Is that not enough?

What could the EU do more? Give the UK freedom of goods without movement? Relent on taxes on some goods, the ones that you export probably? Both are unreasonable. The EU has done more than enough, for long enough. Now you want out on your terms, with an unacceptable agreement. It's no surprise that you are not getting it, a line had to be drawn.

Disclaimer: by you I mean the UK, not you personally.