REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deleted Cyber]

Mate, that's inflation for you. All costs are going up world wide, to be fair.

As I don't want to sound obtuse over money differences I'll just post this. Minimum wage in Portugal is around 600€ per month, 7200€ a year, average wage is about 1000€. A rent in Lisbon is easily 600-700 for a one bedroom apartment.

Its just as bad everywhere.

Which is why brits retire to portugal and portuguese come to work in the UK! AND WHO CAN BLAME EITHER.

When wages dont keep pace with house prices energy costs , food costs etc then its a recipe for revolt.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Don’t tend to post much on this thread, but have never made a secret of the fact I voted out. Not down to bendy banana’s, bus promises or banning free movement (never had a massive problem with that – there were previously opportunities to limit some element of that, at least initially, which the UK Government of the time elected not to avail themselves of & given that we have a lower unemployment rate than the rest of the EU actually need people).

We have not been fully aligned with the direction of travel for some time & I would dispute that, as was said earlier, that all of the other 27 are of one mind. Really don’t consider that that is true. Whether we leave or not then there will be other significant issues in the future. History shows us that all previous blocs of individual countries controlled (to a greater or lesser degree from one centre) does not hold together forever.

Cameron should never have taken this step, but having done so (& lost then washed his hands of it by walking away) was for whoever took over to try to achieve a cross party consensus of what could pass the HoC before activating A50 & being able to put a coherent option to the EU Commission. May’s ‘Red Lines’ which she has defended strenuously (even if incredibly stupidly) have caused the current impasse.

As one of the ‘old gits’ who have apparently caused this then clearly, I won’t be around long enough for this to affect me that much, but I do have children (& hopefully grandchildren at some point) – I care about their opportunities in this world as much as I did when I first held them in my arms when they were born.

Would agree that an element of the out vote was 'anti foreigners' & bus promises, but not all of us should be tarred with the same brush. If anyone thinks that another Referendum (whether that confirms or overturns the previous result) will bring the Country back together then that's not a view I can share given what has gone on over the last 2 years.

 

[jdrodrigues]

Which is why brits retire to portugal and portuguese come to work in the UK! AND WHO CAN BLAME EITHER.

When wages dont keep pace with house prices energy costs , food costs etc then its a recipe for revolt.

Yes. But that has nothing to do with the EU, though. So it is quite irrelevant for Brexit...

We agree with this.

Nobody in Portugal wants to seriously leave the EU.

 

[t3ch]

Would agree that an element of the out vote was 'anti foreigners' & bus promises, but not all of us should be tarred with the same brush. If anyone thinks that another Referendum (whether that confirms or overturns the previous result) will bring the Country back together then that's not a view I can share given what has gone on over the last 2 years.

I don't think the point of a 2nd referendum is to unite the country.

 

[Parkins left foot]

I don't think the point of a 2nd referendum is to unite the country.

Well it certainly won't do that

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It might stop this nonsense though.

The country will never be united on it.

 

[Tredman]

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Sounds like a plan to me.

Coincidentally came across my National Registration Identity Card which was issued for me back in 1950 the other day - not sure how it would have identified me though as no picture in it anyway.

 

[Del Woppio]

If you think that this "Average house price 1999 £72500, average house price 2019 £156000" is a 55% increase then you really don't understand inflation. Or numbers in general

 

[Tom Hark]

I don't like all this talk of + options. Why would the EU give us a Norway + option? Wouldn't Norway then be a bit pissed off that we had a better deal than them?

I think the + was just short for 'plus staying in the customs union', but, yes, as SLA says, we probably wouldn't be allowed to join EFTA anyway. I'd made the mistake of thinking that because it's being put forward as a credible alternative by MPs then it actually IS a credible alternative. Silly me. Revocation or Ref2 and fingers crossed it is, then.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

If you think that this "Average house price 1999 £72500, average house price 2019 £156000" is a 55% increase then you really don't understand inflation. Or numbers in general

OMG youre right I went backwards and said 156 is just over twice so actually its 110%. Brilliant spot! Makes my figues even worse in relation to pay. Thanks

 

[Deleted Cyber]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1065597810301271

 

[leedswolf]

I don't think the point of a 2nd referendum is to unite the country.

Or the first one. It was to try and unite a political party. The average voter had no electoral beef with the EU. Hence only one UKIP MP being returned to the House in a General Election.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Bercow has basically ruled out meaningful vote three by the back door - says returning something that has been defeated twice is probably against Erskine May. That is quite amusing.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Or the first one. It was to try and unite a political party. The average voter had no electoral beef with the EU. Hence only one UKIP MP being returned to the House in a General Election.

And that being an ex-Tory who had an excellent record on local issues, so he could represent any party and he'd have won.

 

[leedswolf]

And that being an ex-Tory who had an excellent record on local issues, so he could represent any party and he'd have won.

Indeed. He then had the dignity to ditch UKIP.

 

[Del Woppio]

Letwin/Cooper to table an amendment tomorrow calling for a series of indicitive votes

What kind of proposal do we think can both get a majority and be acceptable to the EU? Presumably only the softest of soft brexits?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Nothing.

It's not and never has been treated as an issue where we work in the best interests of the country. It's always been party political. Which is why Dishface called the stupid vote in the first place.

So Tories who want rid of Cruella won't vote for anything she says, and Labour (other than people like the awful Hoey) won't vote for it either because they see it as an opportunity to force a GE. Lib Dems, Greens and SNP will oppose any Brexit. Meanwhile the DUP, freaks that they are, can only be pacified if the backstop goes and we know that isn't happening.

 

[nimrod]

Hindsight , but completely agreed.

how is it hindsight when it was all stated before the vote?

more an ability to read and be able to take a balanced view based on what was said and who was saying it.

i don't feel any affinity to the eu but my balanced view told me a vote to leave was a vote for an unholy mess. for me, that was its one and only appealing attribute.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

No deal is going to get voted off tonight. Just a question of whether it is temporary or if Yvette Cooper champions the Spelman Dromey amendment that kills it permanently