REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[visage]

Because poverty and deprivation isnt synonymous with 'no jobs available'.

There are jobs, but they're minimum wage zero hour contract bollocks....and thats not going to stop under PM Boris, EU or not.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

A good article. If there is so much poverty and deprivation in many parts of England, which I agree there is. How can you explain that millions of EU citizens come to live in the UK?

My point is, there has always been much more austerity and poverty in many parts of the EU, than there os in the UK.

This is a good example as the EU hasn't worked. There is more austerity in many parts of the EU than when many countries joined. This great place called the EU was great for the middle and upper classes. It has done nothing for the working class. The places that have recieved EU grants for years, including parts of wales and Liverpool are still very poor and high unemployment areas. This is the same in Spain, Italy, Portugal and other EU countries.
The money from the EU has been used and wasted. Of course the people in the establishment and who cream the system want things to continue, like they were. The EU isn't working here or in most other parts of the EU.

But those things are due to globalisation, and neo-liberal Reagan/Thatcherism rather than the EU, but the EU has become has become a scapegoat for those that have suffered most. It's payback for 30 years of hardship and decline.

Unfortunately it's going to get worse, the mills and the pits aren't going to re-open. There aren't going to be tens of thousands of men entering and leaving the docks each day to build ships. Those jobs are gone and with further automation there just isn't going to be enough jobs to go around in the years to come, with or without immigration.

 

[visage]

Also, it suits those in power to blame the EU, as its an easy scapegoat. Actually fixing the UK labour market is difficult (and might be impossible).

 

[Penk Wolf]

A good article. If there is so much poverty and deprivation in many parts of England, which I agree there is. How can you explain that millions of EU citizens come to live in the UK?

Poverty is different in different Countries, people living in poverty in say, India or Africa would love to live in poverty in the UK, same will apply for Romanians or Poles.

 

[Lord Knows]

People in Spain were living in absolute poverty under Franco half a century ago.

 

[Lord Knows]

A majority of those who backed the Conservative in 2015 voted to leave the EU (58%), as did more than 19 out of 20 UKIP supporters. Nearly two thirds of Labour and SNP voters (63% and 64%), seven in ten Liberal Democrats and three quarters of Greens, voted to remain.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/#more-14746

 

[Langers]

Bloody hell - even The Doctor hates Boris

@PeterDavison5
Dear Boris, you lying, two faced, devious little shit. You scare-mongering xenophobic bigot. Go build your bridge - then jump off it.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

A majority of those who backed the Conservative in 2015 voted to leave the EU (58%), as did more than 19 out of 20 UKIP supporters. Nearly two thirds of Labour and SNP voters (63% and 64%), seven in ten Liberal Democrats and three quarters of Greens, voted to remain.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/#more-14746

Which puts to bed the PLP notion that Corbyn didn't mobilise the Labour voters. This result is all on Cameron

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

Bloody hell - even The Doctor hates Boris

@PeterDavison5
Dear Boris, you lying, two faced, devious little $#@!. You scare-mongering xenophobic bigot. Go build your bridge - then jump off it.

Well he doesn't mince his words!

 

[Langers]

Well he doesn't mince his words!

I guess he knows how it all turns out.

 

[thehistorymakers]

But those things are due to globalisation, and neo-liberal Reagan/Thatcherism rather than the EU, but the EU has become has become a scapegoat for those that have suffered most. It's payback for 30 years of hardship and decline.

Unfortunately it's going to get worse, the mills and the pits aren't going to re-open. There aren't going to be tens of thousands of men entering and leaving the docks each day to build ships. Those jobs are gone and with further automation there just isn't going to be enough jobs to go around in the years to come, with or without immigration.

Yes, but these areas have been recieving regional EU payouts. The same as the rest of the EU. Why hasn't it improved the situation in those places? If it's an abuse by the regional authorities, why hasn't the EU looked in to the 30 years of handouts, that haven't improved the poverty, for the people in those areas? Like I said the EU has benefited the middle classes and has done nothing for the most poor. Surely, if you keep paying billions, you would want to know, why things haven't improved, which is what the article implied?

 

[thehistorymakers]

People in Spain were living in absolute poverty under Franco half a century ago.

The working class are getting about 600- 800 euros a month, the same as when they joined the EU. Unemployment is worse, prices are much much higher, thousands of shops have closed., since joinling the EU. Working people are much poorer than when they joined the EU, in Spain.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Yes, but these areas have been recieving regional EU payouts. The same as the rest of the EU. Why hasn't it improved the situation in those places? If it's an abuse by the regional authorities, why hasn't the EU looked in to the 30 years of handouts, that haven't improved the poverty, for the people in those areas? Like I said the EU has benefited the middle classes and has done nothing for the most poor. Surely, if you keep paying billions, you would want to know, why things haven't improved, which is what the article implied?

But it isn't given to the people directly, is it?

 

[thehistorymakers]

But it isn't given to the people directly, is it?

Of course not, that is what I've been barking on about for years. It never reaches the people. All those places mentioned are as bad now as many years ago. Why doesn't the EU do anything about the wasted billions, which at least here in Spain get used politically, like building an airport in the middle of nowhere, a motorway that goes nowhere or a new town council. Great for the enchufado ( in the system), not so good if you are a worker. Wouldn't you want to know, if you gave a city money for 30 years, and it is stagnated with deprivation?

That is the EU. Oils the machinery and the machinery keeps you terrified to abandon to leave it's web. They indoctrinate the young about bicycle paths and solar panels, but do nothing to stop deprivation.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Yes, but these areas have been recieving regional EU payouts. The same as the rest of the EU. Why hasn't it improved the situation in those places? If it's an abuse by the regional authorities, why hasn't the EU looked in to the 30 years of handouts, that haven't improved the poverty, for the people in those areas? Like I said the EU has benefited the middle classes and has done nothing for the most poor. Surely, if you keep paying billions, you would want to know, why things haven't improved, which is what the article implied?

The situation has massively improved in Romania, Poland, Spain, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia...

Ten years ago Romanian farmers used horses to plough their fields. Today they use tractors and Findus get to sell us tasty horse-meat lasagna.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Of course not, that is what I've been barking on about for years. It never reaches the people. All those places mentioned are as bad now as many years ago. Why doesn't the EU do anything about the wasted billions, which at least here in Spain get used politically, like building an airport in the middle of nowhere, a motorway that goes nowhere or a new town council. Great for the enchufado ( in the system), not so good if you are a worker. Wouldn't you want to know, if you gave a city money for 30 years, and it is stagnated with deprivation?

That is the EU. Oils the machinery and the machinery keeps you terrified to abandon to leave it's web. They indoctrinate the young about bicycle paths and solar panels, but do nothing to stop deprivation.

The British government has done nothing to stop deprivation in the last 40 or so years. Nothing. At. All.

What makes you think that they will u-turn on 40 years of fucking over Britain now that you've rubber-stamped their claim that 'it was all Europe's fault'?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Most of MPs are for remain in. They are going to make sensible legislation and negotiations on Brexit very difficult. As we have a large number of lefties and other assorted loons (SNP to name just one group) sitting on the benches in the commons what should be a relative easy transition from member to non member of the EU is going to be fraught with difficulties. Obstacles are going to be erected at every opportunity to try and thwart the process. David Cameron’s demeanour tells me he has no enthusiasm to sort out any problems arising with Brexit and until he is replaced only turmoil and chaos will be the order of the day. Aided and abetted by the BBC, the EU, Guardian and the like.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

In what world was transitioning out of the EU ever going to be 'relatively easy'?!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The SNP are by a distance the most coherent and organised party in Britain. Far from being loons.

 

[Sniffer]

Most of MPs are for remain in. They are going to make sensible legislation and negotiations on Brexit very difficult. As we have a large number of lefties and other assorted loons (SNP to name just one group) sitting on the benches in the commons what should be a relative easy transition from member to non member of the EU is going to be fraught with difficulties. Obstacles are going to be erected at every opportunity to try and thwart the process. David Cameron’s demeanour tells me he has no enthusiasm to sort out any problems arising with Brexit and until he is replaced only turmoil and chaos will be the order of the day. Aided and abetted by the BBC, the EU, Guardian and the like.

Top wummery.