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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

We had a referendum to join under a Labour Government, I think in 1979.

Greenland had a referendum to leave in 1974. They voted to leave with 50.2% . They then left the EU.
 
It was in 1975 and the question put was whether the UK stayed in or not. We 'joined' in 1973.

67% to stay
33% to leave
65% turnout.
 
It was, but it was subject to the Labour government renegotiating the existing deal to their satisfaction. The new deal was firstly accepted by Parliament and then put to the electorate.
 
It was, but it was subject to the Labour government renegotiating the existing deal to their satisfaction. The new deal was firstly accepted by Parliament and then put to the electorate.


Forgive me I was too young to vote by some distance in 1975 and did not have the political savvy at all aged 10 to have an input in 1975. For 40 years I have been the generation that lived with that decision. Looking at your post I note that
The labour government renegotiated the existing deal to their satisfaction- Cameron didnt. He went for a number of changes and got pretty much squat.
Membership initially was all about trade and a single market. In the late 80s and early 90s that criteria changed and moved towards a federal state of europe and we as a country under governments both Tory and Labour had to renegotiate or veto a number of issues which were deemed unacceptable to our membership. This included membership of the single currency. Even then because of the lack of reform in the 90's a group of MPS formed UKIP initially as a protest against the signing of maastrict. Therefore for 25 years there has been a clear division between the aims to the EU and the willingness of the UK to play by all the rules. No other member has tried to re-negotiate terms of membership to the extent the UK have since joining. As a country we have been a real pain in the arse.
So the referendum was seen as a final put up or shut up by the MPs who supported remain ( 500 out of 650 approximately) and the leaders of the EU who fully expected the UK to vote in and then crawl back under a rock with its tail between its legs and behave itself for the next 25 years. The arrogance beggars believe.

Hindsight is a wonderful gift. I completely agree with DW. A referendum like this is and was always going to be divisive but the vote is an individual one where each vote counts not a first past the post in a region system. Therefore if everyone in Scotland Northern Ireland and Wales had voted in and everyone in England had voted out the result would be out as there are many more votes in England than the other 3 combined.. The motives behind it were not to implement the will of the people it was a control mechanism to get people like Farage to fuck off and allow Cameron to get on with governing while being able to deal effectively with the internal euro sceptics in his party. It was a gamble but a gamble that looked nailed on until about 4am on Friday 24th June.

The culmination of 20 years of poor government policy with regard to infrastructure , housing, NHS education and a 6 year austerity plan on the back of it has led to a huge number of people who were undecided almost tossing a coin. I as a brexiter had to think very carefully about a number of pros. The EU is a bureaucracy but it has done a lot of good things for us as a country.Like many I had to weigh the good with the bad against the current backdrop. I came down in favour of brexit- just. And that is a big difference in the voter. The number of people who voted remain tended to believe about 80% plus in remain. A large number of people who voted leave were 51%-60% in favour so could have been swung either way. The abject failure of senior figures in this country to fail to do that compounds the arrogance of the referendum in the first place. I dont feel I have won anything. I feel that the people have voted and it now sits in a "too tricky tray" for those our votes have charged with running the country and that void will allow extremists to have a voice. A voice that I do not want them to have. Hence why my posts have been about uniting, moving forward and unravelling this ball of string as quickly as possible to provide the stability we so clearly need. My view was that with the EU we needed to be all in or all out with no more tweaks, concessions or changes and that hasn't changed. It appears 17 million thought along similar lines. Maybe if thye remain campaign had done what it was charged with doing we would not have this situation. You will never find a single post from me on here stating I expected to win this. I expected remain to win this but would have been happy knowing I had my say. I do expect however, those voted into power to have plans in place and quickly to deal with the fallout of the result and protect the interests of the country and its people.
 
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That's pretty good Cyber, especially the last paragraph.
 
Single market was pushed through by Thatcher IIRC. The political and social malaise we suffer from now is a culmination of the last 37 years of governanance.
 
Fortunately, but I see Osborne lied too, no emergency budget.

I think for the more sensible people around knew the £350m to the NHS would never happen, but the budget was a very real proposition. So in my opinion, Osborne's lie is worse.
 
Give it time, it will take a few more weeks before the economy is really fucked.

A few pages ago, and post-referendum, you also seemed to think the £350m was real.
 
Vis corrected me that the rebate was never paid, so the £350m was really £257m. I never thought for one minute it would be all spent on the NHS.

You'll also notice that the reason I didn't vote was because I wasn't sure that I wanted long term gain for short term pain.
 
I agree fully with T Dan.

Sorry, I'm not happy with the result and I won't 'deal with it". I won't say "well played" to the other side. This isn't a $#@!ing football match - it's a monumentally important decision based on a campaign of rhetoric, scaremongering and racism/xenophobia. I've every right to be $#@!ed off by it and not want to shake hands with the 'victors'.

The fact is that a LOT of people made their decision based on ignorance and bigotry. I'm not tarring all leave voters with that brush by any means but the atrocious campaigns by both sides as well as the alarming volume of sheer ignorance by voters - that clearly swung the result the way of leave - has got us into a right old mess that will have rumifications in the short, medium and long term. It will effect me and my children.

I thought my views would mellow after a couple of nights sleep but they haven't. I'm disgusted at the attitude of so many people in this country who voted for such negative reasons and had no idea about the consequences.

I'm just pleased the Euros are back on to divert my attention. Game of Thrones finale as well.

Exactly. I also agree a decision such as this should never have been put to referendum, although I do think earlier individual treaties (Maastricht, Lisbon) should have been. We might not be in this situation now if that were the case.

Already the leading leave politicians are backtracking on their pledges, on just about everything they based their campaign on and folk like THM don't give a crap because by his own words he'd made his mind up years ago and no amount argument or discussion [of evidence or fact] was going to change his mind.

I'm struggling to see how people on this forum and MM can defend the lies by the leave campaign (NHS/immigration), upon which many based their vote just because their side "won", on the basis that "all politicians lie" and it's just tough luck if you were naive enough to believe it.

Hurry up and invoke article 50 for fucks sake because things could get nasty if it takes too long.
 
Hurry up and invoke article 50 for fucks sake because things could get nasty if it takes too long.

That would be the absolute worst thing g we can do, we need to let the £ settle, FTSE find its place and all the companies who are going to leave the UK get their announcements out.

Plus the government to actually have a fucking clue what they are going to do.
 
Many people didn' t want it to be the same. They wanted things to change. It seems some people who had a comfortable life didn't want change. Well many people haven't felt any benefits of the EU. Even the Labour party recognise that workers wages have gone down and there was lots of pressure on our infrastructure. Successive governments, of both political divides have loverlooked the working class.
I didn't like any of the politicians, in both camps. I hope we are represented by better politicians, who can bring our people back together.

I also hope all immigrants in the UK are reassured about their future worth in the UK and are given permanent residencies. There is no place for racism or intolerance in any society.

Read the article on the Welsh Valleys posted a day or two ago in this thread. They have little to no immigration, unemployment is high because of steel works closure, but the EU has plowed and is plowing billions into infrastructure and is paying for 23 thousand apprenticeships.

I would like you (and any other leave voter) to explain in what way the EU caused the economic downturn in that area and further to explain what you think will happen when that money stops flowing in a couple of years, what concrete proposals would you make to provide education, training, jobs and homes to those effected?
 
Who decides which area gets that money?

Nothing says they will no longer get that money, in the same way that no one knows whether farmers will stop getting their money.
 
Who decides which area gets that money?

Nothing says they will no longer get that money, in the same way that no one knows whether farmers will stop getting their money.

Why would the EU send money to the UK if it's no longer part of the EU?
 
And why would the Brexit governement spend the money saved on EU payments on existing EU regional funding?
 
That would be the absolute worst thing g we can do, we need to let the £ settle, FTSE find its place and all the companies who are going to leave the UK get their announcements out.

Plus the government to actually have a $#@!ing clue what they are going to do.

I don't think willthings really settle until article 50 is invoked and any treaties, laws, and regulations are re-negotiated, in the meantime the more "fringe" leave supporters feel they've had their muzzles removed.
 
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