REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[MARKakaJIM]

That point has been answered over and over yet you still persist with it. Who said this and why is it a lie?

You say you accept the result of the democratic process but it is clear that you haven't. Concentrating on a poster/bus advert to try to make an inappropriately small point is puerile.

'The bus advert may not be right, so the referendum is invalid' is a desperate attempt to circumvent true democracy.

I haven't seen him claim the referendum is invalid anywhere.

All he's asking, i think, is that people who voted leave, for whatever their reasons, hold those responsible accountable if their promises are not met. So anyone who was swayed into voting leave based on that particular promise, now put their foot down and do everything can to make sure it comes to fruition, which is looking ever more unlikely.

Now you, I or nimrod may not have been taken in by that claim but you can bet there have been more than a handful who were.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

She stopped Labour getting elected in the last election. Far too much power for somebody who is quite insignificant (unless your Scottish).

She's like a sheep tic. Parasitical and abusing her privilege.

Lovely analogy of the viperous harpie

 

[Papper]

Lovely analogy of the viperous harpie

Corbyn is a massive threat to the establishment, to the banks and the Corporations and we now have the power (without the interference of the EU) to put him in place and have a go. They will do everything to oust him and I hope the rank and file Socialists rally behind him. So in conclusion he'll be gone in a week ....

The future's bright the future is purple ..

 

[Tredman]

Who has the power? The right wing of the tory party or UKIP? They are more in bed with the city then any previous PM. Gove and Johnson are even less qualified to be PM than ex PR assistant Dave.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I haven't seen him claim the referendum is invalid anywhere.

All he's asking, i think, is that people who voted leave, for whatever their reasons, hold those responsible accountable if their promises are not met. So anyone who was swayed into voting leave based on that particular promise, now put their foot down and do everything can to make sure it comes to fruition, which is looking ever more unlikely.

Now you, I or nimrod may not have been taken in by that claim but you can bet there have been more than a handful who were.

And a handful who believed the remain lies? That's politics. All that matters, is the result.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Corbyn is a massive threat to the establishment, to the banks and the Corporations and we now have the power (without the interference of the EU) to put him in place and have a go. They will do everything to oust him and I hope the rank and file Socialists rally behind him. So in conclusion he'll be gone in a week ....

The future's bright the future is purple ..

I agree with that.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I think that is a good thing, in the same way that the Lib Dems held back Conservatives from making too much destruction then I would hope having remain supporters on the leave committee will prevent too much devastation and alienating ourselves from Europe.

I love the idea of stable politics with no majority. Coalition kept Tories in check! Interesting times

 

[Papper]

Who has the power? The right wing of the tory party or UKIP? They are more in bed with the city then any previous PM. Gove and Johnson are even less qualified to be PM than ex PR assistant Dave.

People power. Those with a few years under their belt have had enough of successive governments and their bullshit - their wars and their austerity. That vote was (as much as anything) else anti-establishment and our vote is now massive. I can understand the young being fresh thinking and pro-Europe but any leader worth their salt needs to unify. Europe hasn't gone away and never will.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Who has the power? The right wing of the tory party or UKIP? They are more in bed with the city then any previous PM. Gove and Johnson are even less qualified to be PM than ex PR assistant Dave.

Actually if this week proves anything the people ultimately have the power. Where is the sdp when you need it?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Did the coalition keep the Tories in check? Reams of awful legislation still passed. Tame Lib Dems meant everything got through the Commons easily. Whereas they can't ram stuff through now with a tiny majority and no-one else bar the bigoted NI parties backing them up.

 

[Tredman]

Actually if this week proves anything the people ultimately have the power. Where is the sdp when you need it?

Yes. But unless we want to be like Switzerland referendums are not going to happen every week. Clem Atlee & Thatcher (quoting him) said it best:

Margaret Thatcher (quoting Clement Attlee approvingly) once referred to referendums as ‘a device for dictators and demagogues’.They reduce complicated issues down to simplistic ‘yes/no’ questions. They allow elected representatives to abrogate responsibility. They weaken the constitutional protection of minorities and can lead to a ‘tyranny of the majority’.

Edit - just also read our WTO membership and deals are based on EU membership. These will all need to be renegotiated before we can trade under WTO rules. If this is the case shit just got a whole lot worse.

 

[Papper]

Actually if this week proves anything the people ultimately have the power. Where is the sdp when you need it?

Europe wide. There will be a rush of brexits from other EU countries. Of course - it will be blamed on uneducated xenophobic racists.

 

[thehistorymakers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Europe wide. There will be a rush of brexits from other EU countries. Of course - it will be blamed on uneducated xenophobic racists.

There just won't.

Other countries don't have a leader willing to agree to a referendum to try and shut his own party up.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

10.30pm Thursday night

Nigel Farage - "if this ends up 52-48 remain then this is unfinished business"

Yesterday when asked about the petition for another referendum

"this isn't best of three"

fucking cunt.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I don't get why the media keeps asking questions to a bloke that has as much say how this Country is run as I do.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

The call for a second referendum is irrelevant. Considering it is based on a requirement of a minimum turnout of 75% and a 60% majority, all the leavers have to do is not turn up. A second referendum simply won't change the result if those rules are obeyed.

 

[thehistorymakers]

10.30pm Thursday night

Nigel Farage - "if this ends up 52-48 remain then this is unfinished business"

Yesterday when asked about the petition for another referendum

"this isn't best of three"

$#@!ing $#@!.

The same as Tony Blair. In reality Paddy, if you have 2 referendums, why don't you have 3 or 4 or 5. It can't work like that in a huge referendum like the EU one, because we would have to change everything. Laws, treaties, ect ect. There is no point changing everything, if you are going to change it back again and again. The UK would stagnate, so would the EU. The EU wants to go in a different direction, to what the majority of people in the UK see as reasonable. If we wanted to go back, it would be on our knees. We would have to accept their conditions to enter and we would have lost all bargaing power.

The EU needs to change, but it wants to change in an opposite direction, to where we
Would be willing to go

Most top economists say the EU is a busted flush. Massive debts and unemployment. We have an opportunity to govern ourselves, now. Elect people, that can shape our future and if they dont, they will be accountable, to the electorate.

 

[Tredman]

Very sad, hope we can get past this, but it doesn't seem to be dying down:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ported-latest-leave-immigration-a7104191.html

 

[nimrod]

I'm not defending them, I just don't take any notice of them.
Maybe if you would have come out and complained about the remain campaign's exaggerations during the campaign, i could understand your concern about truthfulness in politics. You didn't.

the whole referendum campaign was full of lies and misrepresentations, this is an example of what i wrote about it from the EU thread which you can go and check if "truthfulness" is a principle you follow, which from my position i would absolutely question

i don't think this referendum is much different than the approach at general elections. whilst it might confuse people who vote purely on their chosen political party to see tories at each others throats, the methods being used are the same as ever. the politics of fear has worked before, so why did anyone think that it would be any different in this referendum? easier to use shallow soundbites and shoot the opposition down than try to explain any complexity to a public you deem too stupid to understand what two crosses in two different boxes might mean. after all, once you take out the blatant lies, deliberate misrepresentations, personal attacks and dodgy PR you've virtually eliminated 90% of any election campaign i've experienced in my lifetime. the nation gets the politics and the politicians it deserves. if you want something different, you'd have to change the system.

so when you say "i didn't" what did you mean? do you even make any attempt to check the veracity of what you say? ever?

but nevermind that, as even if i hadn't committed the above to writing, the point still follows, democracy isn't simply about winning an election it's about delivery thereafter. in the same sense that should the government not take the UK out of the EU as promised, I'd expect them to be held to account for that. the difference is you want to pick and choose which of their promises they should deliver and which don't matter to you, which is why you're a phony.