REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[leedswolf]

Wouldn't take long to change that. Maybe we could give an EU negotiator a green card...

It would probably take the best part of 18 months to 2 years to negotiate a trade deal is the general concensus.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

The biggest issue I see with it is that when trying to do trade deals or any deal with the likes of Australia, USA, China, India, etc. you need all the 28 nations to agree on what is put forward, which either takes time or doesn't happen at all, where if it's just 1 nation discussing with 1 nation agreement is far easier.

Also, the Italy situation doesn't sit comfortably, although I understand why the EU have made their stance, but should they really interfering in how they set their budget. In theory, and appreciate we aren't in the same boat as Italy, but if Labour got in and decided to borrow heavily to get the public sector in a nice position, the EU could prevent it happening.

Is that correct or just one of them things people put out for leaving? Reason I am asking is we have recently agreed a trade deal with China to send them a shit load of beef over the next few years and as far as I can make out needed no EU approval.

By the way this is another point that Brexiteers in the UK are missing, when saying Ireland etc will be fucked, whilst you have been navel gazing over the last 2 years, ourselves (and probably the rest of those EU counties who will be affected by Brexit) have been busting our holes to find emerging markets when Brexit happens to try to plug the gap (weather it will be enough who knows).

But fact is us and the others are two years ahead of the UK on securing new trade.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Is that correct or just one of them things people put out for leaving? Reason I am asking is we have recently agreed a trade deal with China to send them a shit load of beef over the next few years and as far as I can make out needed no EU approval.

Have you not just agreed a deal to supply beef to China rather than doing any trade deals?

 

[Tony Towner]

I will start

Youre not correct here in my view. We are in the current position because we triggered article 50.That put an unrealistic timeframe around the whole process.If we had not done that and May had not called an election to give herself a mandate more options would have been available

I wouldl ove to have seen her refuse to form a government and let Corbyn try with a minority government. That would have meant a far far softer brexit and would have kept the tories reputation ( bad enough as it was) Now they are ultra screwed. They may as well $#@! it up with a hard brexit as they have $#@!ed it up so far! They could have returned to power in about 2022 with brexit sorted by a coalition which would have had to compromise on enough fronts to have appeased the EU too. Just my hindsighted view.

We should be looking at

1. Keep freedom of movement but introduce work permits- come here for fun but not to work.
2. Customs Union- its just simpler
3. Similar status to Norway or Iceland
4. No hard border in Ireland not required as we still have free movement.
5. EU passport idea mooted above- but much less than my £1k - nearer £100 to mak it affordable.


Now for me freedom of movement was oe of the things I wanted to see ended as I feared it didnt work. Looking logisticaly that genie is out of the bottle and there is only so much it can be pulled back. So I suggest compromise.

There isn't a coalition Labour could have put together which would have delivered any type of Brexit. They would have been a minority Government as neither the DUP or SNP would have worked with them so as soon as anything softer than what we now know as Chequers was presented JRM and his chums of inherited wealth would have seen it off. It's only the fear of a GE that's keeping May in a job now.

I still contest that there isn't a Brexit deliverable by any Party that doesn't either concede on freedom of movement - which we all know won't fly politically or alternatively leave the Country significantly poorer. That's as relevant now as it was 2.5 years ago. Norway doesn't fly as the pay into the EU budget, Switzerland doesn't as they have freedom of movement.

The last time you hit us with your version of Buyer's remorse I pointed out that it was highlighted to you on here that we neither had the depth of civil service nor the political expertise to guide our way through this. You can't divorce the vote to leave and the incompetence that followed as these are the people you entrusted to deliver this when you put your cross in the box. As for triggering A50 May was under a hell of a lot of pressure from those who voted out to 'get on with it', she had little choice to do it when she did, any further delay would have seen the ERG nutjobs force her out.

 

[Tony Towner]

Racists are actually in the minority. I truly believe that. I was told that bad news sells papers. Thats why racists get propoganda. Thats why Trump is on every front page .Its their strategy.The empty barrel maks the most noise. More fool the media for playing to it. As for newspapers I read the Times as its balanced and has some good articles but mainly I read the I-briefing as its sport is decent without the Sun Mirror Star trash .

Sorry, but UKIP always was and still is a fundamentally racist and xenophobic Party as is/was it's membership and voters. Everyone? of course not, but certainly not the minority. Look at the old UKIP thread for countless example of elected officials and their views of the World.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Is that correct or just one of them things people put out for leaving? Reason I am asking is we have recently agreed a trade deal with China to send them a shit load of beef over the next few years and as far as I can make out needed no EU approval.

By the way this is another point that Brexiteers in the UK are missing, when saying Ireland etc will be fucked, whilst you have been navel gazing over the last 2 years, ourselves (and probably the rest of those EU counties who will be affected by Brexit) have been busting our holes to find emerging markets when Brexit happens to try to plug the gap (weather it will be enough who knows).

But fact is us and the others are two years ahead of the UK on securing new trade.

Also, do you think UK companies have just been sitting around twiddling their thumbs and not getting on with growing their business?

https://www.army-technology.com/new...ct-to-supply-rough-terrain-forklifts-5710742/

 

[leedswolf]

Have you not just agreed a deal to supply beef to China rather than doing any trade deals?

China is already Ireland's third largest market for agricultural exports, increasing to €1bn last year from around €200m in 2010, and the second largest for dairy and pork products.

China banned beef imports from the EU and the US in the 1990s in the wake of BSE and has now given the green light to Irish beef. So there already was a trade deal in place between the EU and China for agri produce and Ireland have satisfied the Chinese that they can resume beef sales.

 

[leedswolf]

Also, do you think UK companies have just been sitting around twiddling their thumbs and not getting on with growing their business?

https://www.army-technology.com/new...ct-to-supply-rough-terrain-forklifts-5710742/

Guessed it would be Uncle Tony.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Guessed it would be Uncle Tony.

It was the first company that came into my head for obvious reasons. I’m sure there are 1000s more.

 

[Johnny75]

Also, do you think UK companies have just been sitting around twiddling their thumbs and not getting on with growing their business?

https://www.army-technology.com/new...ct-to-supply-rough-terrain-forklifts-5710742/

JCB are hardly the beacon I would use for good business. I wonder how they got that contract.

Your point stands though, business isn't stopping or failing to grow because of Brexit, they are doing it despite the fucking mess the politicians are making.

 

[Penk Wolf]

JCB are hardly the beacon I would use for good business. I wonder how they got that contract.

Your point stands though, business isn't stopping or failing to grow because of Brexit, they are doing it despite the fucking mess the politicians are making.

Yeah, I know I’m certainly not a fan.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Not Brexit related, but didn’t know where to put it. I see another bullshit story all over the news that Debenhams have made £500m loss, when the truth is they made £33m profit. £512m is exceptional write downs saving £100m in tax.

 

[leedswolf]

JCB are hardly the beacon I would use for good business. I wonder how they got that contract.

Something to do with their US based manufacturing plant?

 

[Kenny]

1 important matter has been settled, thanks to UKIP who turned up at the EU in huge numbers to ensure the right outcome was met...the discussion was around what our MEP's will get in compo when they lose their jobs (in UKIP's case because they basically asked to be fired). Great news for them it is a fuck load. I wonder what Farage will spend his £150k pay off on

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Not Brexit related, but didn’t know where to put it. I see another bull$#@! story all over the news that Debenhams have made £500m loss, when the truth is they made £33m profit. £512m is exceptional write downs saving £100m in tax.

Now that's a scandal.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

1 important matter has been settled, thanks to UKIP who turned up at the EU in huge numbers to ensure the right outcome was met...the discussion was around what our MEP's will get in compo when they lose their jobs (in UKIP's case because they basically asked to be fired). Great news for them it is a $#@! load. I wonder what Farage will spend his £150k pay off on

?

Surely applies to all not just Farage and UKIP?

The difference is that's the end of their political careers yet other meps may stand for election here. Can't blame people if the system is screwy.

 

[Kenny]

Not Brexit related, but didn’t know where to put it. I see another bullshit story all over the news that Debenhams have made £500m loss, when the truth is they made £33m profit. £512m is exceptional write downs saving £100m in tax.

Easy headline with them closing stores. Simple fact they are getting rid of the loss leaders and the "loss" is a great way to justify axing 4000 jobs without having MP's etc going after them. Clever bit of work from the management in that sense

 

[Kenny]

?

Surely applies to all not just Farage and UKIP?

The difference is that's the end of their political careers yet other meps may stand for election here. Can't blame people if the system is screwy.

Yes all, but suddenly the UKIP MEP's ensured they turned up to ensure they got the best deal. 99% of the time they stay away (is it Farage who is on the Fisheries Committee and has been to 1 out of 20 odd meetings despite moaning to the press that the EU screws our fishing industry over)

 

[Penk Wolf]

Hopefully the write down of their IT systems, stores and goodwill are looked into.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Three years on that committee for man of the people Nige. He attended 1 of 42 meetings.

He was already guaranteed a lifelong pension from the EU, pay off or not.