REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deleted Cyber]

P.P.P.P.P.P.P

Piss Poor Planning and Preparation leads to Piss Poor Performance.

This is quite simple.

If the Uk is not in a position to leave if detrimentally effects not only the UK but the EU and there are 5 or 6 members whose economies are too fragile to risk that. If they go under the EU itself goes under.

I do not care a jot about the timing. Its article 50 that puts the time frame around it but takes no account of the individual complexities of leaving and the agreements needed to be in place to leave. So ladies and gentlemen. Suck it up. The government need to suck it up on dates. EU need to suck it up on times and everyone involved in negotiations needs to suck it upon compromise because everybody is going to have too. Brexiters needs to suck it up and realise it may not be a hard brexit. It may have to be a soft one. There may need to be some form of free movement even if that means you need to get a work permit to work. Nobody is going to get eveything they want and the sooner all sides realise that the quicker we can end this impasse.

Nobody said this would be easy but entrenched positions make it much harder than necessary.

 

[Del Woppio]

Erm, pretty much every leave campaigner said it would be easy

 

[SLA]

The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.
Michael Gove (9 April 2016)
There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
Boris Johnson (26 June 2016)
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
John Redwood (17 July 2016)
To me, Brexit is easy.
Nigel Farage (20 September 2016)
The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
Liam Fox (20 July 2017)

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

The Leave campaign said a lot of shit tbf..

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...28/11-brexit-promises-leavers-quietly-dropped

 

[Deleted Cyber]

The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.
Michael Gove (9 April 2016)
There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
Boris Johnson (26 June 2016)
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
John Redwood (17 July 2016)
To me, Brexit is easy.
Nigel Farage (20 September 2016)
The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
Liam Fox (20 July 2017)

So tell me why is this not happening? Is it being blocked from happening? If Yes who is blocking it and why? Take personalities and idiotic tory mentality out of it.

The biggest single stumbling block is the Border in Ireland

The second biggest stumbling block is the desire for the EU to "punish" the UK for voting leave in an effort to ensure no other countries try the same.

Te UK have decided on a hard brexit. No one forced them down that route to my knowledge. Out means Out. Ridiclulous way to limit your options and effectively reduced the options in the list above significantly. This was done because May called an election and blew her foot off meaning she had to appease the DUP.

We have voted out and will leave.If it takes years so be it. Lets just be sensible about what this means. No-one knows the implications but many can guess and at the moment all the guessing is doing is saying "bad idea to rush" so listen to them! Take your time and get it right!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Maybe T-Boz shouldn't have invoked A50 when she didn't need to and didn't have a plan, and shouldn't have drawn up her own ludicrous, self-contradictory red lines for no reason.

 

[Tredman]

Rubbish, the block is we want access to the single market without agreeing to the other fundamental EU requirements (most pertinent being freedom of movement). The EU have always said you can't have one without the others, its just the idiotic brexiters chose to ignore this.

 

[Del Woppio]

They're not punishing us ffs :icon_lol: Sky aren't punishing me by not letting me watch football after I've cancelled my subscription

 

[Johnny75]

Always somebody else's fault.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Maybe T-Boz shouldn't have invoked A50 when she didn't need to and didn't have a plan, and shouldn't have drawn up her own ludicrous, self-contradictory red lines for no reason.

Maybe. So there needs to be some changing. Thats pretty much what I have been crapping on about for two days. For whatever reason the current strategy is not working for anyone. So revisit it , compromise and change tack.

 

[Johnny75]

Maybe. So there needs to be some changing. Thats pretty much what I have been crapping on about for two days. For whatever reason the current strategy is not working for anyone. So revisit it , compromise and change tack.

So you admit it was wrong to invoke A50 and therefore leave Europe without a plan.

At last a Brexiter that admits Brexit is wrong and shouldn't happen.

 

[SLA]

The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.
Michael Gove (9 April 2016)
There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
Boris Johnson (26 June 2016)
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
John Redwood (17 July 2016)
To me, Brexit is easy.
Nigel Farage (20 September 2016)
The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
Liam Fox (20 July 2017)

So tell me why is this not happening? Is it being blocked from happening? If Yes who is blocking it and why? Take personalities and idiotic tory mentality out of it.

The biggest single stumbling block is the Border in Ireland

The second biggest stumbling block is the desire for the EU to "punish" the UK for voting leave in an effort to ensure no other countries try the same.

Te UK have decided on a hard brexit. No one forced them down that route to my knowledge. Out means Out. Ridiclulous way to limit your options and effectively reduced the options in the list above significantly. This was done because May called an election and blew her foot off meaning she had to appease the DUP.

We have voted out and will leave.If it takes years so be it. Lets just be sensible about what this means. No-one knows the implications but many can guess and at the moment all the guessing is doing is saying "bad idea to rush" so listen to them! Take your time and get it right!

It was never ever going to happen. If only someone had predicted this before the referendum!

 

[Deleted Cyber]

So you admit it was wrong to invoke A50 and therefore leave Europe without a plan.

At last a Brexiter that admits Brexit is wrong and shouldn't happen.

Brexit is RIGHT (for me and other leave voters)

unplanned and unprepared brexit just cant and wont happen.

I may have voted leave but I am not an idiot. I feel that those on all sides responsible for negotiating brexit have made an absolute pigs ear of it so as a brexiter I see that there is a real need to change. Its not about "we won get over it". Its about a common sense " this is all going to even more rat shit that we thought" so lets stepup , take some responsibility and sort it.

 

[Kenny]

unplanned and unprepared brexit just cant and wont happen.

Yet it appears that is exactly what is going happen

 

[lemonjelly]

Here are some thoughts from political scientists, and people who study this stuff all the time in mahoosive detail:
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2018/10/12/brexit-guide/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=CoSS_Weekly_brief

I know Gove also said we're all sick of experts, but fuck me everything he's said has turned to shite (academies anyone?) So lets return to some people with expertise, and learn something from what they discuss. The article by Professor Aditya Goenka is possibly highly relevant to this discussion, but there's a lot there!

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Yet it appears that is exactly what is going happen

Then those allowing it will be cutting off their nose to spite their face. That includes EU countries. Britain could scrape out of the EU with a resounding crash. Spain Portugal, Italy, Ireland Greece cant survive a crash. They will be bankrupt. If thats what the Eu wants keep playing hardball. If thats what May wants with her hard brexit then keep going. Its a lose lose and will create anarchy- which is why I cannot fathom it happening. It would create a climate as volatile as the rise of fascism in the 30s.

 

[SLA]

Then those allowing it will be cutting off their nose to spite their face. That includes EU countries. Britain could scrape out of the EU with a resounding crash. Spain Portugal, Italy, Ireland Greece cant survive a crash. They will be bankrupt. If thats what the Eu wants keep playing hardball. If thats what May wants with her hard brexit then keep going. Its a lose lose and will create anarchy- which is why I cannot fathom it happening. It would create a climate as volatile as the rise of fascism in the 30s.

Given this analysis, and given, that like you say, you're clearly not an idiot, I'm even more stumped as to why you voted leave. Nearly all expert voices predicted that Brexit would at the very least be incredibly complicated, protracted and disruptive on multiple fronts, especially given the records of those in charge of it here. Even with your reasonable misgivings about the EU, surely it doesn't make sense to put this much on the line.

Personally I'm not so sure that Brexit will be as apocalyptic for the rest of the EU as you describe.

 

[Tredman]

Spain Portugal, Ireland Greece cant survive a crash. They will be bankrupt.

yes they can now, its not 2008 anymore

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Given this analysis, and given, that like you say, you're clearly not an idiot, I'm even more stumped as to why you voted leave. Nearly all expert voices predicted that Brexit would at the very least be incredibly complicated, protracted and disruptive on multiple fronts, especially given the records of those in charge of it here. Even with your reasonable misgivings about the EU, surely it doesn't make sense to put this much on the line.

Personally I'm not so sure that Brexit will be as apocalyptic for the rest of the EU as you describe.

Because we as the UK were so clearly out of step with the direction the EU wanted to head that brexit was inevitable. Its like a fiance cheating on his soon to be wife. You know the marriage is doomed to failure.Its when not if.

I did believe some of the rhetoric though and am happy to hold my hands up to that. That doesnt change the fact that we are in the shit. I do not however , believe we are in the shit just because we voted leave. There have been plenty of decisions subsequent to June 2016 that have put us in this position and all sides have to take responsibility for that. I was merely one of those who kicked the snowball down the hill . The fact others added significantly more snow once it was rolling is on them just as much as the initial kick is on me.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

yes they can now, its not 2008 anymore

Italys budget is 130% of GDP. Theyre fucked!