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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Paddingtonwolf said:
Yes - I guess it will. So Leo isn't going to be very happy about that, neither are the Catholics in the North, Sinn Fein, or indeed the Provos.

The "Irish problem" has vexed the finest political minds this country has produced for over two centuries. T-Bag has until March.
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Aye the border issue its the circle that cant be squared.

If you look back to the thread which ran prior to the referendum, the border (by the way why is it always called the Irish border? Just as much be called the British border, especially since it was your lot a 100 years ago who plonked it there) was barely mentioned, it was way down the list of reasons to leave, even then we could forsee that it would cause the problems that it has now, and that was before Theresa got in bed with Arlene after the election.

Ireland thought it would get screwed during the negotiations (still might mind), literally the same time as Bojo and his 2 buddies were standing on the stage the morning after the referendum with that look of what the fuck have we done, every Irish minister including the Taoiseach, MEPs, diplomats, ambassadors etc were on the phones (or going round Brussels) talking to there various European counterparts (and anyone else who would listen) about the consequences, and the EU seemed to have taken that on board with remarkably not 1 of the 27 states breaking ranks (so far).

I doubt they felt that much of a moral duty to support Ireland but more that the negotiators quickly identified that this is the one point where UK cannot win.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Unfortunately, that’s the case all the time.

I don’t want to pay more tax, but that decision is taken away from me.
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WTF? How is it the same? I accept that government will raise money through taxation and I wouldn't leave the UK because of that. I really shouldn't be expected to have to reconsider my place of residence based on a referendum which was 'advisory' and downright fraudulent.
 
leedswolf said:
WTF? How is it the same? I accept that government will raise money through taxation and I wouldn't leave the UK because of that. I really shouldn't be expected to have to reconsider my place of residence based on a referendum which was 'advisory' and downright fraudulent.
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What about people that have to accept that their benefits are been cut?

The principles are exactly the same whether you are happy to accept them or not.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
to be fair it was a finger in the air figure. Its the principle not the amount. I was just trying to show that compromise is possible.

I also agree that it will be extended. I think we may well be in the EU in 5 years time. So what. No problem. If it takes that long I have no issue. The reigns on the federal states of EU have been wound in and Britain helped to keep it in check. So if we are still going to be in in 5 years why all the worrying? Why all the talk of doom? We have voted out and invoked article 50 and have a shit plan in place so its going to take longer. Who cares? Not me. Does it create more uncertainty? Not really. Does it maintain the staus quo? Yes. Does it mean hard brexiters have to re-think? Probably. Does it give time for another election and a different negotiating position to enable a softer brexit? Hopefully.


As I say gnashing teeth and stamping feet dont work. Play the hand youre dealt and play the long game. I repeat THERE WILL NOT BE A NO DEAL BREXIT. EVER
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There really will. In March. Unless something gets in the way that has been negotiated or someone caves in. If you want to avoid no deal stop the clock. Absolutely the best way to guarantee a no-deal is off the table. Also, don't forget that the first EU stance was "no negotiations until Article 50". Well good idea or not, T-Bag did that, and negotiations mean most cards ARE on the table. So stopping Article 50 to allow a much longer negotiation period seems possible. Extending transition doesn't have quite the same effect as you still have an end date where no deal would loom.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
There really will. In March. Unless something gets in the way that has been negotiated or someone caves in. If you want to avoid no deal stop the clock. Absolutely the best way to guarantee a no-deal is off the table. Also, don't forget that the first EU stance was "no negotiations until Article 50". Well good idea or not, T-Bag did that, and negotiations mean most cards ARE on the table. So stopping Article 50 to allow a much longer negotiation period seems possible. Extending transition doesn't have quite the same effect as you still have an end date where no deal would loom.
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Lets do this dance again in April and se if we have a no deal brexit then.
 
Penk Wolf said:
What about people that have to accept that their benefits are been cut?

The principles are exactly the same whether you are happy to accept them or not.
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No they are not. There's a difference, it's government policy.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Lets do this dance again in April and se if we have a no deal brexit then.
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Well maybe.

I am frankly STAGGERED why you are so convinced all will be well. As I say again. Unless WE offer something that works, it's no deal on March 19th 2019. Chequers doesn't work. Backstop doesn't work.

It doesn't matter what is done on every point elsewhere. If you don't find a solution to the Irish border, it's no deal. Simple, certain fact.

T-Bag can call it 95% done, but that 5% is the killer, and I don't believe any negotiator has the solution.

As I say, revoke Article 50, delay this, take time to try and find something. What is happening at the moment is a mess.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Well maybe.

I am frankly STAGGERED why you are so convinced all will be well. As I say again. Unless WE offer something that works, it's no deal on March 19th 2019. Chequers doesn't work. Backstop doesn't work.

It doesn't matter what is done on every point elsewhere. If you don't find a solution to the Irish border, it's no deal. Simple, certain fact.

T-Bag can call it 95% done, but that 5% is the killer, and I don't believe any negotiator has the solution.

As I say, revoke Article 50, delay this, take time to try and find something. What is happening at the moment is a mess.
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Just convinced that a no deal Brexit is a lose lose so no-one wants it
 
I think that is up there with unicorns pissing rainbows in a tight timescale. Stop the thing happening for now. As I say, they said no negotiation until Article 50. We did that, we have had the negotiation, but it isn't going to work as is, but now there is nothing to stop a revocation to give a completely open ended negotiation time and each party now knows their respective red lines. Falling off a cliff in March would look stupid by comparison.
 
nimrod said:
seems like it!

aren't a lot of people exploring dual nationality provisions. i might do that tbh
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I am "entitled" to an Irish passport from both my mother and father...I'm seriously considering getting one very soon!
 
Looks like Cyber is correct for all the wrong reasons
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...-we-ve-run-out-of-time-to-prepare-for-no-deal

Also a point of order re us pulling back from A50. That's not in our own control as all other 27 nations in the EU would have to agree to it and although collectively that may well be in their interests to do so, politically - Italy being the obvious example, it might not be a cake walk.

Finally, mid December is the absolute latest a deal can be done to get it ratified by the various institutions on both sides. End of March is the divorce date not the negotiation deadline without an extension.
 
Its looking more an more than Project Fear was just a stupid term made up by Brexiters to hide the the truth
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UK can continue trading under WTO with an uncertified schedule.

USA, Australia and New Zealand have already objected to the agricultural quota, which is understandable considering we've just copied the EU quota and effectively doubled the original agreed quota.
 
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