REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Sniffer]

I still have my EU citizen ship last time I checked. I will continue to do so for a while yet. Please tell me what is going to change between now and brexit if you feel that you want to move now? Nothing is stopping you.In fact, by all accounts the time to move is now to ensure protection post brexit. I dont understand your point here.

I'd like my own children to have the same rights that I've enjoyed.

My brother is married to an EU Citizen and I'm sure that it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't so easy to move between countries and finding work. Didn't you once mention that one of your own children is also in a similar type relationship?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Am I missing something or would a no deal also mean that a hard border of some sort will be needed in Ireland?

there is one outcome that is probably as close to impossible for all sides that it can be.

That is a No deal brexit.

A no deal brexit would cause almost as much chaos to the EU as it would to us. And that would essentially bankrupt and completely fuck the economies of Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy and half of the new Eastern Bloc members. So folks a no deal brexit is about as likely as the Lib Dems winning the next election. So lets stop banging on aout it. It would be borderline deriliction of duty in a public office for any side to leave without some deal in place.

So lets let them thrash it out for a month and come back with they agree something tangible that we can all look at and debate.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I'd like my own children to have the same rights that I've enjoyed. My brother is married to an EU Citizen and I'm sure that it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't so easy to move between countries and finding work.

Didn't you once mention that one of your own children is also in a similar type relationship?

Yep. And highly likely that will be protected as its in both sides interest to do that.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

there is one outcome that is probably as close to impossible for all sides that it can be.

That is a No deal brexit.

A no deal brexit would cause almost as much chaos to the EU as it would to us. And that would essentially bankrupt and completely fuck the economies of Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy and half of the new Eastern Bloc members. So folks a no deal brexit is about as likely as the Lib Dems winning the next election. So lets stop banging on aout it. It would be borderline deriliction of duty in a public office for any side to leave without some deal in place.

So lets let them thrash it out for a month and come back with they agree something tangible that we can all look at and debate.

Okay - solve the Irish border then with a way that Leo Varadkar and the DUP would both vote for. Good luck.

That problem simply cannot be solved. And that is why there will be a no deal Brexit.

 

[Sniffer]

Yep. And highly likely that will be protected as its in both sides interest to do that.

Surely in the future such relationships would have less of a chance to work as one or the other would have to move countries without being able to work?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

A fundamental right is going to be taken away from people that didn't vote for it. Fairly simple to understand.

Its nt a fundemantal right. Its a right agreed by consent of participating countries. As far as I can see at the moment these are the fundemental rights


Article 2: Right to life
Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour
Article 5: Right to liberty and security
Article 6: Right to a fair trial
Article 7: No punishment without law
Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion
Article 10: Freedom of expression
Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association
Article 12: Right to marry and start a family
Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms
Protocol 1, Article 1: Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property
Protocol 1, Article 2: Right to education
Protocol 1, Article 3: Right to participate in free elections
Protocol 13, Article 1: Abolition of the death penalty

DW and all of us still have the right thanks to EU agreement to freedom of movement until that right goes when we leave or at a date to be determined. Its not going to be next week. There will be plenty of notice.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But I don't want a finite window in which I can easily move to say, Hamburg and start working there. I want that option to be there for as long as I think I might want it. I didn't vote for it to be taken away, I can demonstrate quite easily that I might need that flexibility one day, why can't I have it?

 

[Sniffer]

Okay - solve the Irish border then with a way that Leo Varadkar and the DUP would both vote for. Good luck.

That problem simply cannot be solved. And that is why there will be a no deal Brexit.

I might be sounding thick here but wouldn't that mean a hard border?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Surely in the future such relationships would have less of a chance to work as one or the other would have to move countries without being able to work?

What like what happens now with USA citizens, canadians, South Africans, Australians ,Russians, Indians, Japanese, Thai,Brazilians, Argentinians and Chinese?

My sister married an australian. She has worked the last 20 years ine australia.
My Auntie married a brit with a green card in the USA and got her green cards. Her kids while british now have dual citizenship and have never been out of work.

Now I agree the porcess may not be as quick in fact I am certain it wont be but I dont believe for a minute that the end of us in the EU means the end of such relationships or the end of people migrating to and from here to work. It will just have a couple of extra hoops.

I still remember filling in my token card on an airplane to get a "visa" to enter the country. It was no biggy then and will be no biggy in the future. There is too much british ex pat money going into retirement homes in spain portugal and Italy for the EU to make it prohibitive. Those countries would yell foul quicker than Langers would moan about a gif!

 

[Keef]

Its nt a fundemantal right. Its a right agreed by consent of participating countries. As far as I can see at the moment these are the fundemental rights


Article 2: Right to life
Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour
Article 5: Right to liberty and security
Article 6: Right to a fair trial
Article 7: No punishment without law
Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion
Article 10: Freedom of expression
Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association
Article 12: Right to marry and start a family
Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms
Protocol 1, Article 1: Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property
Protocol 1, Article 2: Right to education
Protocol 1, Article 3: Right to participate in free elections
Protocol 13, Article 1: Abolition of the death penalty

DW and all of us still have the right thanks to EU agreement to freedom of movement until that right goes when we leave or at a date to be determined. Its not going to be next week. There will be plenty of notice.[/

Doesn't all the above finish when we leave the EU in March?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I might be sounding thick here but wouldn't that mean a hard border?

Yes - I guess it will. So Leo isn't going to be very happy about that, neither are the Catholics in the North, Sinn Fein, or indeed the Provos.

The "Irish problem" has vexed the finest political minds this country has produced for over two centuries. T-Bag has until March.

 

[Johnny75]

But I don't want a finite window in which I can easily move to say, Hamburg and start working there. I want that option to be there for as long as I think I might want it. I didn't vote for it to be taken away, I can demonstrate quite easily that I might need that flexibility one day, why can't I have it?

Because some crusty old fucking cunt told you so. And stop being a problem. And whilst you're at it solve all the issues they didn't have a plan for and you don't like. FFS.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

But I don't want a finite window in which I can easily move to say, Hamburg and start working there. I want that option to be there for as long as I think I might want it. I didn't vote for it to be taken away, I can demonstrate quite easily that I might need that flexibility one day, why can't I have it?

I would love to think outside the box on that. I would offer UK citizens the chance to keep an EU passport and its freedom of movement allowances for a fee of £1000 a year, payable to the EU. Those who want it can have it. Those who dont dont.Think if 10 million remianers agreed to do that thats 1 billion into the coffers of the EU year in year out.Pays part the divorce bill. You do that you are half way to a soft irish border as freedom of movement could be free for ANY citizen of Northern Ireland.They get an EU passport, we stumpup the 1000k per person in NI to fund it for the first 5 years. Time to try things a little differently.

We need to look at the possibilities not the obstacles.

Lets face it thats how many brazilians and argentinians get to live and work here. Given Dual nationality. The only leap of faith I have taken here is by creating the nation of the EU!

 

[Johnny75]

I might be sounding thick here but wouldn't that mean a hard border?

The EU won't agree to it as Ireland will reject it.

 

[visage]

Yup.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

there is one outcome that is probably as close to impossible for all sides that it can be.

That is a No deal brexit.

Surely that has only ever been the most likely outcome though (despite what all the Leave campaigners said about nobody wanting to leave the single market)? Any other deal we manage to come up with will have to see some sort of compromise on our 'freedom' from the EU as again, despite what the Leave campaigners led people to believe, we were never going to be able to come up with an amazing deal that allowed us to cherry pick all the bits we wanted from the EU. You either end up with some sort of watered down version of being the EU or leave with no deal. Or, you know, we could just stop the whole ridiculous thing!

Remainers aren't to blame for this (apart from Paul's good point about remainers who didn't vote). I didn't want this. I knew it would be terrible for the country. Why should I get behind something that I am passionately against? The blame lies mainly with those on the Leave side who made out Brexit would be something it is not and offered up a vision of Brexit that is totally unrealistic and unachievable.

 

[visage]

There is no brexit agreement that will

a) get agreed to by the Eu
and
b) Not fuck the UK.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I would love to think outside the box on that. I would offer UK citizens the chance to keep an EU passport and its freedom of movement allowances for a fee of £1000 a year, payable to the EU. Those who want it can have it. Those who dont dont.Think if 10 million remianers agreed to do that thats 1 billion into the coffers of the EU year in year out.Pays part the divorce bill. You do that you are half way to a soft irish border as freedom of movement could be free for ANY citizen of Northern Ireland.They get an EU passport, we stumpup the 1000k per person in NI to fund it for the first 5 years. Time to try things a little differently.

While I appreciate the thought in terms of finding a solution (to a problem that hasn't existed for decades, and shouldn't exist in the future) - I'm 37 now, you'd like me to pay the EU £40k+ between now and when I die because some other people decided I couldn't have something I was born with for free???!!

I can't see it flying.

 

[Johnny75]

I would love to think outside the box on that. I would offer UK citizens the chance to keep an EU passport and its freedom of movement allowances for a fee of £1000 a year, payable to the EU. Those who want it can have it. Those who dont dont.Think if 10 million remianers agreed to do that thats 1 billion into the coffers of the EU year in year out.Pays part the divorce bill.

This highlights the fuck up you are complicit in perfectly. You want somebody to pay for your decision, somebody who doesn't want to do that or indeed have the funds to do that. What would you be offering by way of compensation for this?

And please don't say we would be living in a better place, that's just nonsense.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hmmm

Wanting a remainer to pay personal funds over to cover a divorce bill they didn't vote for.

With all due respect, get fucked with that one.

If anything Leavers should be paying for the Remainers passport and rights costs, as they were the one's causing the issue. Some form of tax you have to pay if you declare yourself as having voted to Leave.