REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deleted Cyber]

I've a lot of time for your posts Cyber and reasoning behind your views, but the current Brexit supporting scramble to blame anyone than themselves is very apparent - it will be yours and other Brexit-supporters fault when history judges this sorry episode, not Cameron (other than proposing it in the first place), not us 'remoaners' as you like to call us, not the sabatoers as Farage called the negotiators today - it will only be the fault of the Brexiters and they need to own the inevitable $#@! up

Ok.

It is the fault of the 52%. I own the problem. No problem with that although I do believe that a number of things I have said are with the benefit of hindsight. I dont believe I have ever used a remoaner tag.

Now work with me to progress the best possible outcome. Thats all I ever asked. The answer by the way is not "stay in the eu" thats off the table. Everything else however, we should all strive towards.

I know its hyperbole but think about something really serious , something that effected the whole country. Lets go with a declaration of war.I would bet that the vast majority of the people in the country were against a war when it was declared in 1914 and in 1939 but as country got behind the effort. In peacetime the decison to leave the EU is probably up there as the single biggest country decision since the war. Forget everything that led up to it, thats past. What matters now is how we deal with the future.

 

[Langers]

I know its hyperbole but think about something really serious , something that effected the whole country. Lets go with a declaration of war.I would bet that the vast majority of the people in the country were against a war when it was declared in 1914 and in 1939 but as country got behind the effort. In peacetime the decison to leave the EU is probably up there as the single biggest country decision since the war. Forget everything that led up to it, thats past. What matters now is how we deal with the future.

There was no need to hold a referendum though - I refuse to believe that the vast majority of leave voters (I don't include you in this btw) had any issue whatsoever with the EU prior to the referendum being called. And I'm sure a lot of them couldn't have told you anything about the EU before the referendum was called either. Why should I club together 'for the effort' when I don't have a single positive thing to say about the whole fiasco?!

It really isn't anything like the country all getting together 'for the effort' when we were under threat of invasion more than half a century ago FFS.

Unless we're being invaded by those awful immigrant things that Farage and his ilk have kept warning us about.

 

[Paul]

I've a lot of time for your posts Cyber and reasoning behind your views, but the current Brexit supporting scramble to blame anyone than themselves is very apparent - it will be yours and other Brexit-supporters fault when history judges this sorry episode, not Cameron (other than proposing it in the first place), not us 'remoaners' as you like to call us, not the sabatoers as Farage called the negotiators today - it will only be the fault of the Brexiters and they need to own the inevitable fuck up

I don't actually agree with this, as much as I should, I dont blame the Brexiters altogether, I think as much blame should go to the remain voters who simply didn't bother to vote, everyone was entitled to an opinion, even a racial motivated minority, but for good people with sensible opinions to do nothing is almost as bad.

 

[Penk Wolf]

It is the fault of the 52%.

It's the fault of those that ran the remain campaign.

 

[lemonjelly]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45952284

The National Audit Office acknowledged that government had made some progress on preparing for the possibility of a "hard" Brexit.

It is the official body charged with scrutinising the operation of government departments and reporting to MPs so that they can hold the government to account.

Its head, Sir Amyas Morse, said: "The government has openly accepted the border will be sub-optimal if there is no deal with the EU on 29 March 2019.

"It is not clear what sub-optimal means in practice, or how long this will last.

"But what is clear is that businesses and individuals who are reliant on the border running smoothly will pay the price."...
Of 12 "critical" projects preparing Britain's borders for a no deal, 11 were "at risk of not being delivered on time and to acceptable quality", the NAO said.

"Although the government has achieved much and its planning efforts have increased in momentum, given the scale of the task, there are inevitably gaps and risks to its progress that I am obliged to point out," Sir Amyas said.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There was no need to hold a referendum though - I refuse to believe that the vast majority of leave voters (I don't include you in this btw) had any issue whatsoever with the EU prior to the referendum being called. And I'm sure a lot of them couldn't have told you anything about the EU before the referendum was called either.

For years, decades even, a rabid hatred of the EU and the sense that we must leave now for the good of the country was the sole preserve of freakshows like John Redwood, Bill Cash and Nigel Farage. No-one else gave much of a toss.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It's the fault of the liars that ran the Leave campaign just as much

 

[lemonjelly]

Well, a lot of it is, as people are choosing what they want to listen to based on which side of the table they sit. Not all economics, academics, noble peace prize winners, award winning scientists, etc. are predicting doom and gloom.

A guy talking Dan Walker this morning was going through all the issues that Peston had noted in the Facebook link above and then Dan said "Some people will say this is just scaremongering". His answer was "Yeah, they are our borders, so we can do pretty much what we want".

I've also been reading if we leave the borders open then it will encourage more criminal activity. WTF, the border have always been open, so why would it increase criminal activity?

From the article linked in my earlier post:

"Organised criminals and others are likely to be quick to exploit any perceived weaknesses or gaps in the enforcement regime," the NAO said.

"This, combined with the UK's potential loss of access to EU security, law enforcement and criminal justice tools, could create security weaknesses which the government would need to address urgently."

The NAO said there was a risk that organised crime could exploit any weaknesses in the border to smuggle goods into the country or traffic people in. However, the NAO's report said it recognised that the government was aware of the changing risks at the border.

 

[lemonjelly]

It's the fault of those that ran the remain campaign.

It's the fault of the liars that ran the Leave campaign just as much

It's the fault of the electorate for not looking into what they were voting for sufficiently.
Everyone is to blame for this. cameron for putting himself before his party and the nation. All the remain campaign for a phenomenally weak campaign. Boris, Gove and co for the lies and deceit. Arron Banks for bankrolling the nasty fuckers. Farage for making racism acceptable in this modern day. Corbyn for constantly sitting on the fucking fence.

No-one comes out of this well. We're all in this together is gonna have a phenomenally different meaning all of a sudden.

 

[Langers]

It's the fault of the electorate for not looking into what they were voting for sufficiently.
Everyone is to blame for this. cameron for putting himself before his party and the nation. All the remain campaign for a phenomenally weak campaign. Boris, Gove and co for the lies and deceit. Arron Banks for bankrolling the nasty fuckers. Farage for making racism acceptable in this modern day. Corbyn for constantly sitting on the fucking fence.

No-one comes out of this well. We're all in this together is gonna have a phenomenally different meaning all of a sudden.

Agree with all of this.

If only we could just revoke A50 and stop the whole fucking shambles......

 

[Penk Wolf]

From the article linked in my earlier post:

I really don't get it though, how can a border be weaker than an open border? You can currently drive in and out of Dublin with zero checks.

I can see the potential loss of access to EU security, but to think the EU and UK aren't going to carry on working together to prevent crime which will work both ways is ludicrous.

 

[lemonjelly]

I really don't get it though, how can a border be weaker than an open border? You can currently drive in and out of Dublin with zero checks.

I can see the potential loss of access to EU security, but to think the EU and UK aren't going to carry on working together to prevent crime which will work both ways is ludicrous.

I don't understand most stuff mate

I guess there will likely be less co-operation and sharing of information between different security services. As a result, we may be much less aware of certain risks or activity. I guess it is also possible that some EU states may be less concerned with criminals travelling out of the EU rather than in, as their jurisdiction ends at the boundary.

In my experience, it seems lack of communication tends to be a big issue in many huge problems.

 

[Johnny75]

To me its been 28 months and progress has been painfull. Part of the reason for that is the entrecnched views of remainers, the EU and the Government not to mention the Elephant in the room, the Irish border.I get it, its tricky. But its their fucking job to sort it so stop fucking moaning on and on and get it osrted. That applies to all sides. It applies to all sides supporters. To me if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. We are where we are. Lets just deal with it and get it done the best way possible.You can all vote at the next election.

Ah right, it's my fault for voting against this shit show and I'm part of the problem why a solution can't be found for a problem I didn't want.

What a way to take responsibility for the biggest fuck up in my lifetime. The answer is we revoke A50 and the EU will allow us to do so.

Fuck the 52% most will be dead shortly anyway, let them bitch and moan about it, better still let them fuck off to Spain and complain about it there.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Ah right, it's my fault for voting against this $#@! show and I'm part of the problem why a solution can't be found for a problem I didn't want.

What a way to take responsibility for the biggest $#@! up in my lifetime. The answer is we revoke A50 and the EU will allow us to do so.

$#@! the 52% most will be dead shortly anyway, let them bitch and moan about it, better still let them $#@! off to Spain and complain about it there.

Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The other REAL cause of this shit show is the snap election that T-Bag thought would strengthen her position but has fatally holed the whole process below the waterline.

You absolutely cannot have a hard border in Ireland. Massive breach of the Good Friday Agreement. Irish government won't accept it. Plus you give the paramilitaries all the excuse needed to reform and re-arm. HOWEVER, a border at the Irish sea of Northern Ireland, whilst totally constitutionally unpalatable could probably have just about got forced through. After all only the DUP would be completely opposed to it even if the other opposition parties also voted against, then there probably would have been enough Conservative MPs that could have been whipped to carry the day. Now T-Bag is propped up by the DUP and so that option is off the table as they would bring the Government down by probably voting against the budget.

Screwed.

But hey it's my fault for not wanting to play with something I didn't vote for and with the only option I want removed from the equation. Seems fair, especially when you think back to the exit polls on the night of the referendum, and that shitcunt Farage saying "if this is close and remain wins, this isn't over". So if that was to have been the case, why can't remain also think "this isn't over"?

Revoke A50 or reap the fucking whirlwind.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Here's a deal: let me keep my EU citizenship that I was born with. That way, if I decide that post-Brexit Britain might be for some people (presumably those who watch As Time Goes By DVDs on a loop), it isn't for me, and I'll go elsewhere and bother someone else. I don't need to be in the UK to do what I do for a living.

Except that isn't on the table is it, it's being taken away from me.

 

[Sniffer]

Am I missing something or would a no deal also mean that a hard border of some sort will be needed in Ireland?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Here's a deal: let me keep my EU citizenship that I was born with. That way, if I decide that post-Brexit Britain might be for some people (presumably those who watch As Time Goes By DVDs on a loop), it isn't for me, and I'll go elsewhere and bother someone else. I don't need to be in the UK to do what I do for a living.

Except that isn't on the table is it, it's being taken away from me.

I still have my EU citizen ship last time I checked. I will continue to do so for a while yet. Please tell me what is going to change between now and brexit if you feel that you want to move now? Nothing is stopping you.In fact, by all accounts the time to move is now to ensure protection post brexit. I dont understand your point here.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

A fundamental right is going to be taken away from people that didn't vote for it. Fairly simple to understand.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I still have my EU citizen ship last time I checked. I will continue to do so for a while yet. Please tell me what is going to change between now and brexit if you feel that you want to move now? Nothing is stopping you.In fact, by all accounts the time to move is now to ensure protection post brexit. I dont understand your point here.

I lose that citizenship as soon as the transition period is over (whenever that is).

I don't want to leave (not particularly anyway, I hate a lot of things about this country but I do quite like where I live and my life), I might find in a couple of years that I do.

"If you don't like it, bugger off now" is not much of an answer! Why should I be stripped of something I have had all my life and that I don't want to lose?