REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

I think you underestimate the hours youtubers do to earn their money! I watch quite a few at the moment that I like as they put a lot of effort into their content.

Regarding the sense of entitlement - and I know you aren't just aiming this solely at young people - but to address that I personally think people my age are more interested in getting the Tories out of power than wanting Corbyn in because they will get benefits of it. That is however, only from my own networks of people that I know (from various backgrounds though) so it could just be who I surround myself with and I'm being naive.

I think this is part of the problem. People think Youtubing is a career. It isn't. It's vapid marketing as relevant as QVC will be in 5 years but it does make me laugh that young voters especially can't see this as the most naked of capitalism when they espouse the virtues of Corbyn.

 

[YoungWolf]

Youtube has been around for a while now - it has grown immensely since 2005 to the point where there are lots of different genres now with very large audiences on the platform. They just did a boxing event which sold out in Manchester (not sure which arena but was a fairly big one) and had over a million pay for the privelige to watch it live.

Whether it will be relevant in five years time I don't know but I can imagine people said the same about it five years ago.

I'm not sure why you had to go with that tone though, and completely ignore the other part of my post when I just addressed a small part of a point you had made. I also have an iPhone which I guess I should have thrown away the second I showed any support for Corbyn - damn it.

 

[Tredman]

I find myself agreeing with Johnny and Siggy to a certain extent, but I think a lot of it is I'm older than I was and views naturally crystallise to thinking the young are vapid and feckless when you are older

I'm not a fan of youtube, but its equally (if not more) valid as a career in daytime tv, trashy magazines etc - if it makes some people happy and harms no one crack on with it.

 

[Siggy]

I was right with Johnny till he slagged off QVC, I used to work there :icon_lol: was bloody good fun to be fair.

 

[SLA]

I can't say I really recognise this picture that you guys are painting. Ever since I've been of working age, (and before that, in fact), there has always been a proportion of the population that are workshy twats who think the world owes them a living. And read any literature from any period of history and you'll see it's not a recent phenomenon.

And I can't agree with the criticism of YouTubers and their like who make a living out of such platforms, much as I have no interest in what they're doing. Surely they're just being entrepreneurial - utilising the tools available to them to make a living when a lot of traditional routes to financial stability have been closed off.

I was talking to my my mum about this the other day and she said in her day, you just came out of school and got a job easily - and if you didn't like that job, you just got another one. There were endless opportunities in factories, offices, etc. But that's largely all gone. High volume jobs in manufacturing have gone, jobs such as my mum had in the tax office, which employed thousands upon thousands of people have all gone, replaced with technology.

So for good or ill, the world has changed and people are increasingly reliant on insecure work in the service industry. And this trend is only going to increase. So politicians and society as a whole are eventually going to have to work out what to do as people genuinely don't have work to go to. Personally I'd prefer a more mature approach than simply blaming people for having no work ethic, or immigrants for taking jobs or whatever method of "othering" is in fashion this week.

I know we've had the discussion around universal basic income on here before and we probably don't want to go there again, but probably in the next 50 years there will need to be some more radical ideas put forward than either main political party is proposing currentl.

 

[Johnny75]

Youtube has been around for a while now - it has grown immensely since 2005 to the point where there are lots of different genres now with very large audiences on the platform. They just did a boxing event which sold out in Manchester (not sure which arena but was a fairly big one) and had over a million pay for the privelige to watch it live.

Whether it will be relevant in five years time I don't know but I can imagine people said the same about it five years ago.

I'm not sure why you had to go with that tone though, and completely ignore the other part of my post when I just addressed a small part of a point you had made. I also have an iPhone which I guess I should have thrown away the second I showed any support for Corbyn - damn it.

Not having a pop at Youtube, it's a fine platform for all sorts of things. I was having a pop at Youtubers and wanting to be famous for falling off a cat whilst playing the banjo and wearing makeup they've been asked to try out by the latest firm proving they are engaging the young and not testing it on animals.

I guess as Tredman says if it's not harming anybody then crack on with it. It's a pretty small space though and like any industry only a very small amount earn the money they want to. There's a decent article in the Freakonomics book on 'why drug dealers all live with their mothers' which explains the phenomenon quite well.

I don't agree with Tredman on the young, I think there are some brilliant minds held back because they don't conform, I just look at the level of learning now and it's surpassed the way I learnt tenfold. My point was we need a cultural shift away from blame and more to innovating and doing. That's where I see the regression and I think Corbyn would tap into this as a shit pied Piper telling them he would solve the problems through government, which I know to be total bollocks.

I'd go along with others that if we can find a decent centrist leader I'd vote for them but there really isn't a decent leader around now and I don't see the Tories as any worse than any of the others.

I don't understand your iPhone statement although under comrade Corbyn I'm not sure you would be allowed one.

 

[Langers]

I agree with a lot of that, SLA.

I work in a university, and the work ethic of the students I interact with is very different to the work ethic when I was studying. Sure, I did what I needed to do and I got my degree, but the culture seems to have changed these days. More students seem to look after themselves better, socialise by playing sport/exercising as opposed to going out on the lash but above all, they work bloody hard and do long hours.

I don't think it's as big a problem as is being made out either - I just think that more people have a presence online, and as with politics itself, the negative traits are so more prominent.

As for employment - even my parents can't quite grasp just how hard it is out there and how much it's changed. When I was looking for jobs a few years back (as I hated the job I had) they would find things that I had absolutely no chance of getting, paying a salary I could only dream of, yet said 'but you could easily do that'. Well I'm sure I could do some parts of it, but there's absolutely no point applying when I don't have any of the experience they're asking for, not to mention the fact that others will apply for it who are more suited to the job spec. My folks just don't understand that - it's not something their generation had to worry about as much.

And that's before we've got onto buying a house etc with the ridiculous amounts needed for a deposit etc etc.

So I have no issues with the 'YouTubers' etc - if they're able to make some money doing something they enjoy, good on them. It's very tough for young people in the current climate and a LOT of them are working as hard as they can to make the best of it.

 

[Tredman]

TBF Langer most of those who have got to university have got there partly because they have at least *some* application - I see the same with the graduates where I work, they are all hard working, industrious and pretty serious. Very few who go or would want to go to the pub after work for example.

The issue is more with the left behind youngsters - through lack of application or opportunity they seem to have nothing to look forward to and are not productive. Its the biggest failing of this country that there are many kids who will never get anywhere purely because of where and to who they were born

 

[Langers]

Yeah I appreciate that - I was mainly trying to highlight the difference between now and when I was a student.

 

[Johnny75]

TBF Langer most of those who have got to university have got there partly because they have at least *some* application - I see the same with the graduates where I work, they are all hard working, industrious and pretty serious. Very few who go or would want to go to the pub after work for example.

The issue is more with the left behind youngsters - through lack of application or opportunity they seem to have nothing to look forward to and are not productive. Its the biggest failing of this country that there are many kids who will never get anywhere purely because of where and to who they were born

I agree with this too.

The same Uni Langers works at is where I get my Engineering work placement students from. They come up to Stoke and are very industrious and they are very different to other students from much more local. Students from Keele know the price of everything and value of nothing and tend not to last long due to a sense of entitlement and those from Staffs that have worked for me are not in the same class as those from Langers in terms of ability.

That's purely down to the person they are and the course they do, which is one of only 5 of it's kind in the UK. Sadly 2 out of 4 of the Engineers I've employed are in or going into finance which is a total waste IMO. Snapped up because of ability and heads turned because of money, can't blame them but it's engineering's loss.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I think this is part of the problem. People think Youtubing is a career. It isn't. It's vapid marketing as relevant as QVC will be in 5 years but it does make me laugh that young voters especially can't see this as the most naked of capitalism when they espouse the virtues of Corbyn.

My neice is making a bloody fortune out of it. Basically comfortably paying for her years at uni.

 

[Johnny75]

My neice is making a bloody fortune out of it. Basically comfortably paying for her years at uni.

Good for her. As I said the Freakonomics guys have a good chapter in their book on this type of phenomenon.

 

[SLA]

TBF Langer most of those who have got to university have got there partly because they have at least *some* application - I see the same with the graduates where I work, they are all hard working, industrious and pretty serious. Very few who go or would want to go to the pub after work for example.

The issue is more with the left behind youngsters - through lack of application or opportunity they seem to have nothing to look forward to and are not productive. Its the biggest failing of this country that there are many kids who will never get anywhere purely because of where and to who they were born

I agree with this. I'm sure a lot of "left behind" kids do lack application - but I'm not particularly inclined to throw too much blame their way. There but for the grace of god go I. If I was growing up in a deprived area with zero opportunities, I'm not sure I'd be waking up and thinking that the world was my oyster.

 

[Keef]

Without typecasting,even though it looks like I am,this is probably the main reason they end up in gangs and/or selling drugs,the gangs side of it gives them a sense of belonging and worth,the drug dealing is seen as easy money,they see somebody off the estate in a flash car,nice clothes and think I can do that,I want that

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I understand your worry about typecasting, but I think your point is incredibly valid in many ways. To a kid, that sort of life looks like an easy path to a lot of dosh if other opportunities are denied to them.

 

[Tredman]

Ultimately it's lack of hope and opportunity. There will always be a very small minority who'll go that way, but many wouldn't.

Don't know how we solve it without a truly egalitarianism party. And no one, not even Corbyn, would offer that.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Aye, the damage has been done over the last 40 years.

There's no such thing as society.

 

[Keef]

I don't know if the blame can be laid at Margaret thatchers door,or whether it happened after,or was already happening,but maybe her fight with the unions,closing mines,decimating manufacturing has a lot to do with it,thousands of jobs,whole communities basically thrown on the scrap heap,denying future generations jobs.
It may have happened anyway,but a slower paced closing could have helped with getting other industries into the area,retraining people that sort of thing.
On the problems of the no hopers off the estate,the chances get blown fairly early on in secondary school,they think this is shit,I'm not going this morning I'd rather go and hang around in town,and then it's a downhill slope,and ends up not even being capable to do a job in McDonald's because they can't read too well,so will struggle with the menu,or any written instructions,

 

[Penk Wolf]

So why do some get out of the deprived areas and move on to better things and some don’t?

 

[Tredman]

Luck, better application, better parents, take your pick.

Its should just be down to the child and their application.