REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Paddingtonwolf]

The Canada deal remains on the table because Tusk knows we can't take it. It would mean immediate collapse of the UK government because they are propped up by a Northern Irish Loyalist party. Now, that wouldn't have been the case if TBag hadn't called that snap election...


OOOOOPS.

 

[darlowolf64]

I would say I'm pro-remain and I doubt many on here would class me as anything but right (although in truth I'm centrist you trotski bastards).

Yeah, being a raging Leftie, I managed to have a pretty good chat with Johnny on the train home on Saturday and I reckon he's a closet Corbynite :smarmy:

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Voted labour last time but before that as true blue as you could really ask for. Voted Labour in 1997 but every other election since I could vote (1992) I was putting my mark in the Conservative box.

Absolutely pro-remain.

 

[Tredman]

Don't know who id vote for this time tbh, I'd definitely vote for a new centrist pro-remain party if there were one.

EEA seems to be the best and most obvious option to me, but it doesn't fit with all the xenophobia whipped up by May, Farage and friends.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I'm stumped. The current Conservative Party is abhorrent. Corbyn is a disaster in charge of labour and Momentum is basically anathema to me. Cable is pushing the Lib-Dems towards backing a Pro-Remain stance so maybe, but God knows really.

I am leaning toward a spoilt ballot. UK politics at its best.

 

[visage]

I won't be voting unless something changes.

I've had a few people say that abstaining is a de facto vote for the Tories, but I don't think we get better politicians if their only selling point is to be marginally less odious than the others.

So from now on I have my own demands. If a party doesn't meet then, I don't vote. That way no-one gets to claim my vote as an endorsement of their fuckwittery.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'll vote Green again, assuming they put a candidate up in South Staffs. Irrelevant what I do as the sociopath Williamson will win.

I'd like to go back to Labour at some point in an ideal world. Not going to happen at the moment though for a variety of reasons.

 

[Tony Towner]

I would always vote, but like Paddy at the moment 'none of the above' is a serious consideration. Voted Labour last time as my constituency had the smallest Tory majority so my voted counted to help unseat her. If the next election is post boundary changes then my seat becomes safe Labour and I really don't like Chris Williamson - effectively Corbyn's right hand man outside the cabinet.

Politically I'd describe myself as Blairite without the war mongering

 

[Penk Wolf]

I would struggle to vote Tory, but feel as if I’m been pushed closer to them. I appreciate it is social media and social media opinions are usually exaggerated, but it seems there are more and more people that want more for doing less and that is what Corbyn seems to champion.

Like Tony T, Blair’s Labour is about where I feel most comfortable.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I would struggle to vote Tory, but feel as if I’m been pushed closer to them. I appreciate it is social media and social media opinions are usually exaggerated, but it seems there are more and more people that want more for doing less and that is what Corbyn seems to champion.

Like Tony T, Blair’s Labour is about where I feel most comfortable.

Can you give examples of “more for less”?

 

[SLA]

I'm fairly centrist really. The Lib Dems had always been my natural home until they became Tory enablers. Johnny seems to think I co-wrote the Communist Manifesto but then what does he know, he makes Hitler look moderate. :boxing:

 

[lemonjelly]

I would struggle to vote Tory, but feel as if I’m been pushed closer to them. I appreciate it is social media and social media opinions are usually exaggerated, but it seems there are more and more people that want more for doing less and that is what Corbyn seems to champion.

Like Tony T, Blair’s Labour is about where I feel most comfortable.

Isn't "more for less" virtually a catchphrase of the conservatives since 2010?

I think Corbyn has been arguing higher taxation for funding increased social issues, such as health and social care etc. However most "political" commentary isn't really about actual policy anymore, and is too much about perceived personality, or a load of "ra-ra-ra" stuff with little relevance.

 

[Johnny75]

Isn't "more for less" virtually a catchphrase of the conservatives since 2010?

I think Corbyn has been arguing higher taxation for funding increased social issues, such as health and social care etc. However most "political" commentary isn't really about actual policy anymore, and is too much about perceived personality, or a load of "ra-ra-ra" stuff with little relevance.

You mean the cult of Corbyn?

I understand what Penk means, I'd also add to that there seems to be a divesting of responsibility from those young people who support Corbyn. Almost as if 'Corbyn will sort it out if I vote for him' regardless of looking at the detail. Of course this is wrong in the same way the Tories are saying 'austerity is over, everything is rosy, honest guv'.

 

[Langers]

I have no political allegiance which really does fuck me off because I've never been so disillusioned with the shape of British politics at the moment. The country is crying out for strong leadership, yet the only 2 people who could feasibly be PM are totally out of the depth.

I will never vote Tory - they disgust me. TBH I'm completely sick of the lies, politicians putting party before country, awful soundbites fooling gullible voters and above all, the fact that racism is becoming more and more acceptable in society, perpetuated by the Government.

If there was a GE tomorrow I honestly don't know what I'd do. My main priority would be to get these cunts out of Government, but I have so little faith in Labour making things tolerable.

 

[Tredman]

Agree with all of that Langers. I'd vote for the 'anyone who could beat the Tories' option in my constituency.

The racism, lies and downright appalling governing from them is sickening. The Anti-semitism mess in the labour party is equally as bad - shame really as there is a valid debate to be had about support for Israel.

Ultimately I think the tories have done more harm and will do more in the future - I will put my cross wherever will stop this.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Isn't "more for less" virtually a catchphrase of the conservatives since 2010?

I think Corbyn has been arguing higher taxation for funding increased social issues, such as health and social care etc. However most "political" commentary isn't really about actual policy anymore, and is too much about perceived personality, or a load of "ra-ra-ra" stuff with little relevance.

There are plenty of examples of it on here, but you usual have to put two are three posts together on different issues.

 

[Siggy]

I was a Liberal voter until the sellout despite the fact I know a lot of people feel that they kept us from full blown Tory horror. I also would currently vote "none of the above" and despite so many sounds that a new centrist party might form nothing ever seems to materialize. Up until Iraq Blair was very good and someone in that mould would be perfect in my opinion.

Take the minimum wage argument, which is being generalised to say everyone should earn £10 per hour without taking anything else into consideration. I earned £2 an hour washing up in a restaurant at the beginning of my career and went on to work in an office for £30 a week, I will be honest I didn't want to do that but there were no other options to get experience in a working environment and as soon as I found something better I left. I left school with no qualifications what so ever and had to work my ass off to get a half decent job and it took nearly a decade for that to happen partly my own fault for not being an academic.

To put that into context I was still living with parents and trying to forge my way in life, if it was a single mother for example she could and should get support with that from the government (and rightly so)

My problem with this is that many of our young folk feel entitled to everything without earning it (starting to sound a bit Righty I know) in some cases I would agree but there seems to be a growing number of people who if things aren't exactly as they want it throw their toys out the pram, the minimum wage situation falls into that category for me.

You may or may not believe that we have excessive numbers of low skilled workers in the UK but reducing that creates a supply and demand situation that should increase wages suiting the employee not the employer. At the moment there are countless people willing to accept very low wages, which the average UK born citizen won't and when they leave there is a large queue to replace them. If that queue is removed and people won't take the job as the wages are taking the piss the employer will have to raise the wage. Now you could then go on to discuss how this will impact drastically on the business and its profitability and prices will have to go up etc.... and if you were talking about smaller businesses I would have some sympathy but the supposed strike action is being taken by McDonald's employees.

Communities that are from outside the EU already have this problem to an extent and are offering very generous packages in order to secure decent staff here in the UK.

Now I will be honest I fear the rage of the left, so feel free to disagree but be gentle please

 

[Johnny75]

I was a Liberal voter until the sellout despite the fact I know a lot of people feel that they kept us from full blown Tory horror. I also would currently vote "none of the above" and despite so many sounds that a new centrist party might form nothing ever seems to materialize. Up until Iraq Blair was very good and someone in that mould would be perfect in my opinion.

Take the minimum wage argument, which is being generalised to say everyone should earn £10 per hour without taking anything else into consideration. I earned £2 an hour washing up in a restaurant at the beginning of my career and went on to work in an office for £30 a week, I will be honest I didn't want to do that but there were no other options to get experience in a working environment and as soon as I found something better I left. I left school with no qualifications what so ever and had to work my ass off to get a half decent job and it took nearly a decade for that to happen partly my own fault for not being an academic.

To put that into context I was still living with parents and trying to forge my way in life, if it was a single mother for example she could and should get support with that from the government (and rightly so)

My problem with this is that many of our young folk feel entitled to everything without earning it (starting to sound a bit Righty I know) in some cases I would agree but there seems to be a growing number of people who if things aren't exactly as they want it throw their toys out the pram, the minimum wage situation falls into that category for me.

You may or may not believe that we have excessive numbers of low skilled workers in the UK but reducing that creates a supply and demand situation that should increase wages suiting the employee not the employer. At the moment there are countless people willing to accept very low wages, which the average UK born citizen won't and when they leave there is a large queue to replace them. If that queue is removed and people won't take the job as the wages are taking the piss the employer will have to raise the wage. Now you could then go on to discuss how this will impact drastically on the business and its profitability and prices will have to go up etc.... and if you were talking about smaller businesses I would have some sympathy but the supposed strike action is being taken by McDonald's employees.

Communities that are from outside the EU already have this problem to an extent and are offering very generous packages in order to secure decent staff here in the UK.

Now I will be honest I fear the rage of the left, so feel free to disagree but be gentle please

I think there is a definite sense of entitlement but I wouldn't necessarily restrict that too the young. I've seen it grow more over the last 5 years or so and I can't put my finger on why. To add to that we have become a very jealous populous, always looking to get one over on somebody and I've found that in 60year olds all the way down to kids in my daughters class. Playground politics is awful and exacerbates this.

I'm not sure I agree on the wage (and the immigration cause you imply) as I think it relates to the sense of entitlement that even if a company was to offer £600 a day to shovel shit* and you had to get up at 6 in the morning to do it people wouldn't. They don't want to do that job, they want to be famous via social media or Youtube/ Instagram. It shows as a lack of work ethic and sadly what's shown is believed. I think there would be a vacuum of people willing to do those jobs but still some would whine about government not doing enough. Almost like the blame culture has filtered down and become normal.

*I would automate the shit shoveling and get somebody who is young and without the burden of running shithouse IT projects for the government to develop the automation and write the code for it.

 

[Siggy]

The work ethic aspect is very interesting, not that I have an answer for it only I can't understand it. I blame social media for quite a lot, it was in the beginning quite a good thing but it has developed into something that seems to cause this almost cultural laziness.

 

[YoungWolf]

I think you underestimate the hours youtubers do to earn their money! I watch quite a few at the moment that I like as they put a lot of effort into their content.

Regarding the sense of entitlement - and I know you aren't just aiming this solely at young people - but to address that I personally think people my age are more interested in getting the Tories out of power than wanting Corbyn in because they will get benefits of it. That is however, only from my own networks of people that I know (from various backgrounds though) so it could just be who I surround myself with and I'm being naive.