REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deleted Cyber]

I understand your principles and view on the vote but even you must conceded that knowing who would be in charge of delivery it was always doomed?

Hindsight s a wonderful gift. Even I could not have imagined how spectacularly they could fuck this up. It's monumental. Never in the history of British politics has the country given power to such a poor government and weak opposition. Nobody could have foreseen Labour's capitulation even if you could guess the Tories would step right. Complete buffoons who will all manage to ensure their careers are safe in a way teflon could be proud of. A disaster of our own making when it really didn't need to get any where near this.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

48.1% of us guessed it up front.

 

[Del Woppio]

This is not a surprise in the fucking slightest tbh. I always thought it was a bad idea, but the people who were going to be implementing it made it a terrible one

 

[Tony Towner]

Hindsight s a wonderful gift. Even I could not have imagined how spectacularly they could $#@! this up. It's monumental. Never in the history of British politics has the country given power to such a poor government and weak opposition. Nobody could have foreseen Labour's capitulation even if you could guess the Tories would step right. Complete buffoons who will all manage to ensure their careers are safe in a way teflon could be proud of. A disaster of our own making when it really didn't need to get any where near this.

Fuck me Cyber that's shite. For the Labour part read this and the Corbyn thread from pre, during and after the referendum to see what a bunch of mainly left leaning voters think of him.

As for the Tories, you were told beforehand if leave won then Cameron would go. If that happened then the Party would lurch to the right and be essentially ran by a bunch of opportunists with little or no comprehension of how to deliver what they want because their desires, which in the case of Johnson for instance wasn't what he really wanted anyway, aren't deliverable.

I don't believe this is your idea of what you voted for, but please don't pretend you weren't told on numerous occasions by many people where it would end up. On an internet forum 'i told you so' is such a pathetic thing to say and I recognise that, but I'm sorry we did and you can make as much noise as you like about this not being your Brexit, but this is the Brexit you were always getting and I'm sorry but you have to own that.

 

[Johnny75]

Exactly right TT.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

$#@! me Cyber that's $#@!e. For the Labour part read this and the Corbyn thread from pre, during and after the referendum to see what a bunch of mainly left leaning voters think of him.

As for the Tories, you were told beforehand if leave won then Cameron would go. If that happened then the Party would lurch to the right and be essentially ran by a bunch of opportunists with little or no comprehension of how to deliver what they want because their desires, which in the case of Johnson for instance wasn't what he really wanted anyway, aren't deliverable.

I don't believe this is your idea of what you voted for, but please don't pretend you weren't told on numerous occasions by many people where it would end up. On an internet forum 'i told you so' is such a pathetic thing to say and I recognise that, but I'm sorry we did and you can make as much noise as you like about this not being your Brexit, but this is the Brexit you were always getting and I'm sorry but you have to own that.

Oi!

Read my previous posts especially those from 2016. I was cautiously optimistic and most of them covered that we didn't know what we didn't know. Coming back with I told you so I see as a little trite even if you feel you did. In 10 years time when I have been ultimately proved right i will remember to be a little more dignified.

I am posting on this thread to try and give you lot some balance. I am in the complete minority, in fact there are probably only a handful of us leavers left. What I hope I have tried to do was be completely honest with my reasons and feelings. That is really disrespectful to be dismissed as shite and that is part of the whole brexit problem.

I have always given my view and fought my corner. Now, mid way I am trying to empathise that I feel exactly the same as a remain voter looking at the absolute mess being made of this. I don't think that is shite. I think that is an attitude and feeling that could help bring the country back together. Almost all the people I know who voted brexit would vote soft in another vote between a soft or hard brexit.

The EU and UK governments have acted far more childishly and churlish than I could have imagined. If that makes me a naive optimist well colour me happy. I was asked what I expected. I answered better.

That's not shite

 

[Deleted Cyber]

48.1% of us guessed it up front.

So

I am not poking the stick here


Next week the UK goes to the polls a final time to vote for two things

Soft brexit within 5 years

Hard brexit within 5 years

I vote a.
Remained a vote a or abstain?


Ok for 48% it's the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th place match but at least they get to influence.
Government has a mandate. If they can't fulfil it they go. Is it that hard?

 

[Johnny75]

Oi!

Read my previous posts especially those from 2016. I was cautiously optimistic and most of them covered that we didn't know what we didn't know. Coming back with I told you so I see as a little trite even if you feel you did. In 10 years time when I have been ultimately proved right i will remember to be a little more dignified.

I am posting on this thread to try and give you lot some balance. I am in the complete minority, in fact there are probably only a handful of us leavers left. What I hope I have tried to do was be completely honest with my reasons and feelings. That is really disrespectful to be dismissed as shite and that is part of the whole brexit problem.

I have always given my view and fought my corner. Now, mid way I am trying to empathise that I feel exactly the same as a remain voter looking at the absolute mess being made of this. I don't think that is shite. I think that is an attitude and feeling that could help bring the country back together. Almost all the people I know who voted brexit would vote soft in another vote between a soft or hard brexit.

The EU and UK governments have acted far more childishly and churlish than I could have imagined. If that makes me a naive optimist well colour me happy. I was asked what I expected. I answered better.

That's not shite

I can't believe you were that naive. You must have known it was Johnson et al that were going to be in charge of Brexit. Time and time again people pointed this out and their lack of a plan. Ignorance really is no excuse.

Fine you voted on your own ideology but you have to live with the consequences, this is on you and the others that voted for the UK's exit from the EU. Blaming the EU for behaving like they have is silly, they are the the party that did not want the UK to leave so why should they give any concessions? This isn't an amicable split, it is only wanted by one side.

I stand by my assertions that Brexit voters got what they wanted and now have what they have, no excuses.

 

[SLA]

Oi!

Read my previous posts especially those from 2016. I was cautiously optimistic and most of them covered that we didn't know what we didn't know. Coming back with I told you so I see as a little trite even if you feel you did. In 10 years time when I have been ultimately proved right i will remember to be a little more dignified.

I am posting on this thread to try and give you lot some balance. I am in the complete minority, in fact there are probably only a handful of us leavers left. What I hope I have tried to do was be completely honest with my reasons and feelings. That is really disrespectful to be dismissed as shite and that is part of the whole brexit problem.

I have always given my view and fought my corner. Now, mid way I am trying to empathise that I feel exactly the same as a remain voter looking at the absolute mess being made of this. I don't think that is shite. I think that is an attitude and feeling that could help bring the country back together. Almost all the people I know who voted brexit would vote soft in another vote between a soft or hard brexit.

The EU and UK governments have acted far more childishly and churlish than I could have imagined. If that makes me a naive optimist well colour me happy. I was asked what I expected. I answered better.

That's not shite

I think people are just confused as to *why* you expected better when there was literally nothing prior to the referendum that pointed to things going in any other direction.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Not all, but there are a few on here that were marginally sitting on the remain side that are now talking as if they have always been 100% remain.

Cameron to resign was pretty much universal, but very few (There were some) said how much of a mess it would be due to the people in control.

I do believe there’s a lot more going on behind the scenes than we are aware. There must be, surely!

 

[visage]

Its hard to see what brexit formulation could possibly work.

The EU wont break the internal market to accommodate a country that is leaving. Leavers in parliament wont make the concessions that the EU demand for access to that market. So we end up with the worst of all worlds - a no deal brexit that fucks our economy.

Im not sure how simply having better negotiators can fix these fundamental issues.

 

[Kenny]

Dan - Job for you in the Government

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...utm_source=Facebook&__twitter_impression=true

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, they'd love me. I'd say I could bring them down from the inside but they don't seem to need my help there.

They need actual native German speakers to do it properly if they're going English -> German. You know, those awful foreign types. I'm sure I'd do a better job of it than they have (doesn't seem like it would be hard) but it wouldn't be flawless by any means. Professionally I don't tend to translate English -> German, it's the other way round (well I don't really do it full stop any more, but you know what I mean). You translate into your native tongue. They've grabbed some mook who did German A Level 20 years ago by the look of it, lamped a dictionary on his/her desk and told them to get on with it.

It's one of those jobs that Government agencies think isn't really very important because everyone speaks English anyway and besides which, we have Google Translate now, what's the problem. Well, this is the problem.

 

[The Bear]

You could go in like Sir Bernard Proudfoot Smith. The English spy in the Blackadder hospital with a strong German accent.

 

[visage]

It sounds so obvious that the translators native tongue should be the target language - phrasing, idioms etc are the hardest parts. But hey, we're British, we dont need no stinking forrins.

 

[nimrod]

Not all, but there are a few on here that were marginally sitting on the remain side that are now talking as if they have always been 100% remain.

Cameron to resign was pretty much universal, but very few (There were some) said how much of a mess it would be due to the people in control.

I do believe there’s a lot more going on behind the scenes than we are aware. There must be, surely!

i'd have described myself a reluctant remainer. the main problems i had with leave were specifically the people who were "championing" the cause, the degree of complete lies and bullshit they speak and the lack of any path or plan to demonstrate a better society would be created as a result. i thought little would change only we'd be worse off to some degree. providing the worse off isn't too great, i can live with that, but at present that looks like a pretty fucking huge proviso. the wider political ramifications of a nastier society, a revived Russia and their shenanigans further undermining 'democracies' with nobody standing up to them, along with numerous other business, NI ... concerns is also disturbing. i mean as an ideological anarchist there's a part of me sort of loving the whole mess, but i don't see it as a path to success.

the problem really is that within the voting block "Leave", inevitably there will be groups of people that want or believe in different things. in the same way that it would be wrong to describe all leavers as xenophobic or various other things, it's also wrong that essentially a minority group such as ERG categorically can state that a hard brexit is the will of the people. the binary vote allows them to get away with that. and what's going on behind the scenes is simply a political power struggle with the strength of largely that minority putting the squeeze on. if we end up with a hard brexit they will be quite happy with the mess won't they?

i can have some sympathy for cyber for not knowing who would be in control, there was a leadership contest after all. but i don't have much sympathy if you look at the candidates and what the direction of travel may have been under each. you may have ended up in the same position regardless. and it was obvious there was going to be a huge uncertainty from a leave vote. if you vote for uncertainty, you can't justifiably complain when you get it.

 

[SLA]

Yeah, they'd love me. I'd say I could bring them down from the inside but they don't seem to need my help there.

They need actual native German speakers to do it properly if they're going English -> German. You know, those awful foreign types. I'm sure I'd do a better job of it than they have (doesn't seem like it would be hard) but it wouldn't be flawless by any means. Professionally I don't tend to translate English -> German, it's the other way round (well I don't really do it full stop any more, but you know what I mean). You translate into your native tongue. They've grabbed some mook who did German A Level 20 years ago by the look of it, lamped a dictionary on his/her desk and told them to get on with it.

It's one of those jobs that Government agencies think isn't really very important because everyone speaks English anyway and besides which, we have Google Translate now, what's the problem. Well, this is the problem.

Welcome to my daily world. Idiots!

I like the comment under the article suggesting they should have kept in English but had it all in caps and double spaced to give the impression of talking loudly and slowly to the stupid foreigners.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You never know, I might end up translating again one day. Not like I'm doing much at the moment. People are idiots though.

"I've got a 5,000 word document here that needs translating urgently. How long will it take?"

"I don't know. I haven't read it yet. Send it to me and I can probably tell you."

"It's German, isn't it?"

"Sure. But if I send you 5,000 words taken from Richard Littlejohn columns and 5,000 words drawn from a Will Self novel, you tell me which would be quicker for you to summarise, in English."

 

[Langers]

i'd have described myself a reluctant remainer. the main problems i had with leave were specifically the people who were "championing" the cause, the degree of complete lies and bullshit they speak and the lack of any path or plan to demonstrate a better society would be created as a result. i thought little would change only we'd be worse off to some degree. providing the worse off isn't too great, i can live with that, but at present that looks like a pretty fucking huge proviso. the wider political ramifications of a nastier society, a revived Russia and their shenanigans further undermining 'democracies' with nobody standing up to them, along with numerous other business, NI ... concerns is also disturbing. i mean as an ideological anarchist there's a part of me sort of loving the whole mess, but i don't see it as a path to success.

the problem really is that within the voting block "Leave", inevitably there will be groups of people that want or believe in different things. in the same way that it would be wrong to describe all leavers as xenophobic or various other things, it's also wrong that essentially a minority group such as ERG categorically can state that a hard brexit is the will of the people. the binary vote allows them to get away with that. and what's going on behind the scenes is simply a political power struggle with the strength of largely that minority putting the squeeze on. if we end up with a hard brexit they will be quite happy with the mess won't they?

i can have some sympathy for cyber for not knowing who would be in control, there was a leadership contest after all. but i don't have much sympathy if you look at the candidates and what the direction of travel may have been under each. you may have ended up in the same position regardless. and it was obvious there was going to be a huge uncertainty from a leave vote. if you vote for uncertainty, you can't justifiably complain when you get it.

I have been genuinely surprised just how easily led a lot of people have been, and some of these people were (I thought) intelligent people. It's the sheer inability to explain their reasons for wanting to leave the EU, and how these fucking dreadful buzzphrases have stuck.

People just don't want to read up on things. A hashtag on Twitter or a catchy slogan is going to have all the points sewn up in a concise fashion - and hey, some of them rhyme!

It seems like asking people to actually try and read up on the consequences of leaving the EU was FAR too much effort. And they prove this point time and time again by sharing horrendous posts on social media that can be disproven in about 5 minutes by simply googling stuff.

Yet despite all this, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, and despite trying to engage them in conversation about Brexit, what it will mean, what it now appears that we can and can't do, some minds just cannot be altered. Will of the people. Brexit means Brexit. "Just walk away and tell them to fuck off."

People are just so fucking lazy.

 

[SLA]

"What's that? You want you a 40-page business contract that took you months to finalise in the English translated into Greek by tomorrow afternoon? Sure, no problem. Yes, yes, of course it will be of similar quality and applicable to the Greek legal system."