REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Penk Wolf]

The idea that, referendum or not, Labour could support something that will make poor people poorer is disgusting.

Labour are in a no win situation really. Go against Brexit and lose half their voters. Support Brexit and lose half their voters.

 

[SLA]

many years ago my dad suggested that when you got to 80 you should have a big party to celebrate your life before being euthanised.

he's increasing that by a year at a time at the moment - more failed promises of the older generation!

Yeah, my dad swore blind that he'd die at 76 because a gypsy told him that once (he's very much a Brexit supporter obviously) - he's 82 this year, the lying bastard.

 

[nimrod]

It's just $#@!. And people like bojo and smog know that they can say any old bull$#@! because even when videos of the lies, with subtitles explaining why it's a lie, how damaging the lie is, and why they lied get produced for social media, the people saw the initial lie don't even see it. Or don't care. Or just parrot some nonsense about the IRA or Russia or Labour causing the recession and the $#@!s just laugh and get away with it. Just $#@! off

I guess you shouldn't expect any more from people who can only arm themselves with "hindsight"

 

[visage]

Labour are in a no win situation really. Go against Brexit and lose half their voters. Support Brexit and lose half their voters.

Sure. So if you're fucked either way go with what is right.

 

[Johnny75]

Sure. So if you're fucked either way go with what is right.

Exactly this. The current Tory party are as evil a bunch of individuals as I've seen for a very long time so there is plenty of room to take the moral high ground from this bunch of cunts yet Corbyn and his acolytes are doing the square toot of fuck all to capitalise on this situation.

I hope we get a new political party to can the two of them and A50 whilst we're at it.

 

[visage]

Also, it's not just bin brexit. It's the explanation.

This is why it's shit, this is the damage that will be done, this is how you were lied to...

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I hope we get a new political party to can the two of them and A50 whilst we're at it.

There is certainly a gap for a new central party as the Lib Dems seem like they are never going to get that much support. There must be a few voters who feel they cannot currently vote for Labour or the Conservatives.

doing the square toot of fuck all.

This typo made me chuckle :icon_lol:

 

[SLA]

We've been down the new party route before though and everything in our current political system mitigates it being a success in electoral terms. There's a reason neither Conservatives nor Labour will ever seriously consider ditching First Past the Post.

 

[Johnny75]

This typo made me chuckle :icon_lol:

A square toot would be an interesting thing (bloody fat fingers).

 

[Penk Wolf]

Sure. So if you're fucked either way go with what is right.

But surely that’s just handing it over to the Tories, as the next election they’ll be Tory voters plus half of labour voters?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

We've been down the new party route before though and everything in our current political system mitigates it being a success in electoral terms. There's a reason neither Conservatives nor Labour will ever seriously consider ditching First Past the Post.

Until recently, the centrist party (Lib Dems) have tended to take votes from one party or the other creating a "lead" between the two main parties without either of those parties significantly increasing their own support. The collapse of the Lib Dems has seen the return of two party politics and the likelihood is that a new centrist party would take votes that would previously have gone to the Lib Dems...as you've pointed out FPP effectively renders any third party nothing to aspire to beyond being the third party and occasional coalition party. It would take a serious shift in the political landscape of this country to reduce either of Labour or Conservatives to support below their core mid 30% support and in the last 12 months we've actually seen a shift upwards for both parties.

 

[visage]

But surely that’s just handing it over to the Tories, as the next election they’ll be Tory voters plus half of labour voters?

Perhaps. But there will be a long reckoning when it comes to brexit.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Until recently, the centrist party (Lib Dems) have tended to take votes from one party or the other creating a "lead" between the two main parties without either of those parties significantly increasing their own support. The collapse of the Lib Dems has seen the return of two party politics and the likelihood is that a new centrist party would take votes that would previously have gone to the Lib Dems...as you've pointed out FPP effectively renders any third party nothing to aspire to beyond being the third party and occasional coalition party. It would take a serious shift in the political landscape of this country to reduce either of Labour or Conservatives to support below their core mid 30% support and in the last 12 months we've actually seen a shift upwards for both parties.

I said similar a decade ago . Fuck all happened. Nothing changed and look where we are. The worst government ever backed by the worst opposition in living memory trying to implement a clusterfuck of a brexit because the whole issue around a referendum was implemented half cocked and with no plan. If EVER there is a manual on politics " How Not to govern in peace time" then this lot are following it to the letter.

 

[SLA]

I said similar a decade ago . Fuck all happened. Nothing changed and look where we are. The worst government ever backed by the worst opposition in living memory trying to implement a clusterfuck of a brexit because the whole issue around a referendum was implemented half cocked and with no plan. If EVER there is a manual on politics " How Not to govern in peace time" then this lot are following it to the letter.

Brexit is not a clusterfuck because the referendum was badly planned and implemented (though both are the case) - it was always a stupid idea that could only ever have produced the current situation. This point was made repeatedly before, during and after. There's no hindsight here - it was an inevitability.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

.......The worst government ever backed by the worst opposition in living memory

Michael Howard
William Hague
Iain Duncan-Smith

All utterly, utterly ineffective opposition. Even if I was to agree that the current Labour Party policy/tactics are vague on Brexit, they have forced the government back on a number of non-Brexit issues which none of the above three were ever able to do.

 

[visage]

Michael Howard
William Hague
Iain Duncan-Smith

All utterly, utterly ineffective opposition. Even if I was to agree that the current Labour Party policy/tactics are vague on Brexit, they have forced the government back on a number of non-Brexit issues which none of the above three were ever able to do.

Great. Labour - winning in all the areas that dont matter.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

10 years time prediction

UKIP so dead its untrue
Labour- either far left or gone
Tories- In opposition
Liberals- In government coalition
New Party- In power

Thats how absolutely shocking the state of british politics is that if a half decent centrist new party came along I bet 40% would vote for them in a heartbeat.

 

[Penk Wolf]

10 years time prediction

UKIP so dead its untrue
Labour- either far left or gone
Tories- In opposition
Liberals- In government coalition
New Party- In power

Thats how absolutely shocking the state of british politics is that if a half decent centrist new party came along I bet 40% would vote for them in a heartbeat.

You'll never change the mentality of enough people that voting for anyone other than Conservatives or Labour isn't a wasted vote.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Great. Labour - winning in all the areas that dont matter.

Not so great if you want the official opposition to be a single issue party....

 

[visage]

Brexit *is* the single issue.

Want to invest in public services? Try doing that when you lose 10% of GDP
Want to protect the NHS? What will you do when you're begging countries for replacement trade deals that want access to it?
Want to keep the economy running? Try doing that when EU nationals refuse to come here.

Everything. EVERYTHING in our national life will be adversely affected by Brexit. There is nothing in Labours manifesto that can compensate.

Want my vote? Oppose Brexit. Im not going to vote for any party that contributes to our national diminishment.