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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Things on buses may come back to haunt you...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41908302
The health service should get the cash boost it was promised during the EU referendum, NHS England's boss says.
Simon Stevens used controversial claims used by Vote Leave - that the NHS could benefit by £350m a week - to put the case for more money in a major speech.
With waiting times worsening, he said trust in politics would be damaged if the NHS did not get more.
He said the budget had grown modestly in recent years, but those rises would "nose-dive" in the next few years....
During the referendum it was claimed £350m a week was sent to the EU and that would be better spent on the NHS.
The claim was widely contested at the time and ever since - it did not take into account the rebate the UK had nor the fact the UK benefited from investment from the EU.
Some argued it proved highly influential in the referendum result.
Mr Stevens refused to be drawn on just how much money he was after - sources close to him said he was not specifically asking for an extra £350m a week, which would work out at an extra £18bn a year.
Instead, they said it just needed to be significantly more than had been promised to date if waiting times were not to worsen.
 
Do we even need another referendum. Can't the government just pull out of Brexit because of the overwhelming damage it's going to cause the country?
 
Do we even need another referendum. Can't the government just pull out of Brexit because of the overwhelming damage it's going to cause the country?

This. It'll piss some people off but then I couldn't give a flying fuck about what they think. Fuck 'em and they can shove their bus up their arse.
 
Enshrining the date of exit into law is a fundamentally stupid thing to do. It doesn't strengthen our negotiating position and is just a piece of politics from an embattled prime minister more concerned with her own position than the good of the country.

Apart from the most ardent of brexiteers who does this move appeal to? A pointless gesture from a weak leader. Every day that passes under this so called government they manage to hammer another nail in our collective coffin.

Just go now before the damage you cause is beyond repair.

I can accept Brexit, I can't accept the journey they are taking. Incompetence at every level.
 
Meanwhile, lots of people who wanted to "take back control" and "protect taxpayers money" seem to be actively avoiding tax, shock horror:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/09/brexiters-put-money-offshore-tax-haven

I mean, Rees-Mogg obvs is close to the breadline. The amount his family is worth, there is no excuse for his avoidance of tax.
This (and I'd suggest more prominent brexiteers will also be a part of this club) smacks of hypocrisy to me.
 
This. It'll piss some people off but then I couldn't give a flying $#@! about what they think. $#@! 'em and they can shove their bus up their arse.

Johnny75 advocate of democracy showing the tact and diplomacy of Donald Trump. Your comments do him proud. Best you tweet them.
 
Johnny75 advocate of democracy showing the tact and diplomacy of Donald Trump. Your comments do him proud. Best you tweet them.

Thanks for the advice. You're great.

I wish everybody was just like you including myself. What an inspiration you are with your wit, wisdom, advice and wonderful views of the world.

You're ace. xx
 
That will be Lloyd Blankfein‏, CEO of Goldman Sachs.

Who is now pushing the notion of a 2nd referendum:
Lloyd Blankfein‏Verified account
@lloydblankfein
Nov 16
More
Here in UK, lots of hand-wringing from CEOs over #Brexit. Better sense of the tough and risky road ahead. Reluctant to say, but many wish for a confirming vote on a decision so monumental and irreversible. So much at stake, why not make sure consensus still there?
 
Also:

The UK has no structures or agency of its own for approving and licensing medicines. It relies almost exclusively on the European Medicines Agency. The MHRA is an ancillary organisation. In precisely 15 months UK access to the EMA ends; abruptly if the "no deal" voices prevail.

Where are the UK's preparations for replacing this vital framework? The answer is: Non-existent. Not even embryonic. Just a statement by Hunt this summer that the UK "will look to continue to work closely” with the EMA, but we're ready "to establish our own system if necessary".

The EU started planning to relocate the EMA (currently in London) the week after Art50 was notified to much tabloid chagrin, the idea that EU agencies should be located in the EU having come as a shock. That's just RELOCATING. We, who actually need to REPLACE it, have done nowt.

Having worked for a similarly sized gov't agency for most my professional life, I estimate that in order to "establish our own system" and have everything in place to take over March 2019, we needed to have started two years ago. And even that would be tight. I'm deadly serious.

The setting up will require complex, technical, primary legislation, which will be hotly contested between strong counter-pulling lobbies and interests (big pharma, NHS, patient groups, ethics cmtees) and require extensive consultation, expert advice and debate.

Only at THAT point, can you start looking for a CEO, a board, expert staff, support, training, a building etc. In all honesty, 15 months isn't even enough time if you were ONLY looking at the recruitment of such technical staff. Especially in such a niche area.

Then there's cost. Even by Eurosceptic estimates the UK pays a fifth of an agency like the EMA. It would need to set up the UK equivalent for a fifth of the cost *just to break even*. This is fantasy of course. Testing, assessing and licensing a new drug is inelastic, cost-wise.

This exposes the myth of "saving lots of money by leaving the EU". Much of the money we paid was to centralise essential tasks, like the medicines regime, with huge efficiency and time savings. Not dealing with multiple authorities also reduces costs for pharma cos, ergo prices.

This simple example also puts to bed any "they need us more than we need them" nonsense. Yes, we are an important contributor to the EU. Yes we are also an important market. They *want* us, for sure. But we *need* them. Structurally. Desperately. Not forever, but certainly now.

The day the UK leaves, everything in the EU27 will function PRECISELY as it does now. Money will be tighter. Some of their sectors will face challenges. But none of their rules or processes change. They face no transition. We do -in a myriad ways- and are totally unprepared.

Because medicines is only one of a 100 such regimes that need replacing which will fall on the same unfathomably stretched civil service to do; the same exhausted people trying to also do the other 99 things, as well as renegotiate 700 treaties, on TOP of their ordinary duties.

So, what happens if there's "no deal", in this, as in a thousand other areas for which the UK has simply made NO preparations? This isn't fluff. It's life and death. Sick people will end up waiting for years for available treatments, stuck in a bottleneck of unapproved meds.

Does your faith and patriotism have the magical power to make technical legislation and multidisciplinary agencies just spring into being? Is it unpatriotic to raise the #Brexit alarm or quite the reverse? Am I a remoaner for thinking about this? Or are you a fool for not?

This is the reality of no deal. Or should I say, one of the many, many realities. It isn't just trade (though being the only country on the planet operating solely on WTO tariffs is immensely stupid), it's so many other things.

We have done zero preparation and it's too late to fix it now. We are just way too intrinsically tied to the EU in so many ways and do not have the people anything like capable of allowing us to go it alone. This whole thing is undeliverable without crippling ourselves.
 
But the border agreement and the GFA as a whole are more important to them for a number of reasons than anything else.
 
I'm not sure the people would agree if they went into another recession and the Country went bust.

I'm pretty sure they UK wouldn't want a closed border anyway.
 
As a nation Ireland aren't a giant within the EU, this is their opportunity to demonstrate some strength so I don't blame them for using it. That said I was picking up a takeaway tonight and overheard a conversation between 2 middle aged ladies, who I would judge as classic Daily Mail readers, their view was that if Europe don't want to engage in talks we should leave now and go it alone. Now nobody needs to deconstruct that statement, but it's got to the stage now that if the EU's strategy was to try to get a UK climb down by backing us into a corner it's going to have the opposite affect. The cliff edge is hurtling ever closer
 
As a nation Ireland aren't a giant within the EU, this is their opportunity to demonstrate some strength so I don't blame them for using it. That said I was picking up a takeaway tonight and overheard a conversation between 2 middle aged ladies, who I would judge as classic Daily Mail readers, their view was that if Europe don't want to engage in talks we should leave now and go it alone. Now nobody needs to deconstruct that statement, but it's got to the stage now that if the EU's strategy was to try to get a UK climb down by backing us into a corner it's going to have the opposite affect. The cliff edge is hurtling ever closer

I had a similar conversation with a (pretty intelligent) guy at work. He felt the EU were being obstructive and looked confused when I said the EU were playing poker but our cards were Mrs Bun the Baker, a joker and a panini sticker from 1996.
 
No thoughts on coalition talks breaking down in Germany?

Not sure it makes any difference. The EU's negotiating strength is predicated on unanimity. They have adopted a simple list of demands which all member states can agree to none of which are controversial. The German government is not in a position yet where it can set itself apart from everyone else so it is business as usual.

Think about that. 27 independent nations of different political persuasions all adopting the same position compared to our single government who can't agree a single position. A cabinet riven by divisions against an EU rallied around a single set of position statements.

We stand no chance.
 
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