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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Much as I like Corbyns principles, I'm concerned the PLP are undermining him a lot, hence Labour looking relatively ineffective.
On the positive side, they are offering generally a real alternative to a lot of the government agenda. Whether it is sufficient to convince the voting masses, I'm very uncertain at the moment my friend.
 
T-Bag refusing to "take sides" in the argument between Boris who has resurrected the "£350m a week for the NHS" claim and the (independent) UK Statistics Authority who say er, that's bollocks, just as it was 15 months ago.

She is Brent and Boris is Chris Finch. "Let's not dwell on whether it or isn't inaccurate"
 
Should be 20 points ahead with all the dithering and bullshitting coming out of the government.
 
lemonjelly said:
Much as I like Corbyns principles, I'm concerned the PLP are undermining him a lot, hence Labour looking relatively ineffective.
On the positive side, they are offering generally a real alternative to a lot of the government agenda. Whether it is sufficient to convince the voting masses, I'm very uncertain at the moment my friend.
Click to expand...
I don't know whether it's Corbyn and his front bench who are sadly lacking or the media not giving the platform, but over the Summer they have been very quiet when there are divisions to be exposed within the Conservatives. My suspicion is Labour don't know how to play Brexit 'will of the people' and all that versus good of the country and belting the Tories where it hurts.
 
Their current strategy is to wait for the current Government to fall over. Which will probably happen and all that, but it means we're subjected to a load of shit in the meantime.
 
Tony Towner said:
I don't know whether it's Corbyn and his front bench who are sadly lacking or the media not giving the platform, but over the Summer they have been very quiet when there are divisions to be exposed within the Conservatives. My suspicion is Labour don't know how to play Brexit 'will of the people' and all that versus good of the country and belting the Tories where it hurts.
Click to expand...

I thought Keir Starmer presented a fairly robust position, albeit let down somewhat by a cabal of backbench Labour MPs who would rather take down the leadership than oppose the Tories.

The reality is we have a government who present a moving target when it comes to Brexit so it is very difficult to determine what there is to oppose.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
I thought Keir Starmer presented a fairly robust position, albeit let down somewhat by a cabal of backbench Labour MPs who would rather take down the leadership than oppose the Tories.

The reality is we have a government who present a moving target when it comes to Brexit so it is very difficult to determine what there is to oppose.
Click to expand...
The game changer is to oppose Brexit, say that negotiations have proved it to be a disaster and illustrate the flawed concept that it is. The PLP will get behind that as will most of the membership. There is clearly a significant battle to be had at grass roots level, but I'm sure I read that more actual Labour voters went remain even though a lot of the cities in Labour control were heavily leave. By way of an admittedly crass example, are Barnsley who were 68% leave going to vote any other MP than a Labour one irrespective of their EU position? Going all in on the remain, new referendum play is not only the politically savvy thing to do it's also the right thing to do for the country.
 
Oh, 100%. If we're talking common sense then the only way to go is to say "This has been an absolute disaster, we have totally wasted well over a year thanks to the ineptitude of our Government, the Leave campaign was based on lies and they will never, ever be able to deliver what they promised. We need to cancel it and start again".

Won't happen though.
 
I agree with you, but the alternative of waiting for a weak Government to fall whilst knowingly inheriting a crock of shit there isn't a solution out of for a decade and that's being positive seems a pretty lame way to secure power.
 
Disagree that a Remain position is the way forward for Labour, electorally, even though I very much agree with the analysis that it would actually be the right thing to do for the country.
I think we'll need to see Brexit bear a lot more sour, rotten fruit before a decent majority sees re-running or overturning the referendum as a good idea. Rightly or wrongly, it is seen as "the will of the people" even by a lot a Remain voters and this especially holds true in Labour heartlands. I think Labour will be out of power for a long time going down that route and will simply be giving the Tories a nice easy target to shoot at, as opposed to shooting at themselves.

Not to say that the current strategy is particularly edifying but I think it's probably less damaging.
 
Good news for the Brexiteers - May says she wants a 2 year transition period because the UK won't be ready for a smooth exit in March 2019.

What a shock, almost as if the Brexit camp had no idea what leaving would be like. Not the utopia of hope and prosperity we were offered it seems.
 
Could you see this government getting through another two years after Brexit? Nah. Brexit will happen, but the transitional agreement will become the permanent solution I reckon, and we'll be paying for the benefit and probably only gaining some concessions on immigration whilst having no voice on other issues. That's my guess.
 
Its a fucking mess. That 'frictionless trade' they keep talking about wont happen unless you have a single set of standards that everyone agrees to under a single enforcement umbrella. But the brexiteers wont submit to ECJ authority.

So we'll see tailbacks from Dover to London. Or EU consumers will just source their goods from the internal market instead.
 
So a halfway house that still annoys those that voted remain, and also has Farage calling foul.

Brilliant
 
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