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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Any chance the decent Miliband could make a comeback?
 
This is not the beginning of the end its the end of the beginning
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Primarily because we speak English which is overwhelmingly the world's most spoken second language.



That hasn't got anything to do with the point I made. You said we were right to leave the EU partly in response to EU austerity. I'm telling you that the EU has had no hand whatsoever in a Conservative government pursuing an austerity-led agenda for six years.
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They wanted to come to the UK, because there is work and there isn't in their countries. That is because the UK governments create conditions for business to flourish. This isn't to the credit of the EU, because half the EU is still suffering austerity. This is due to UK enterprise. This is why it astounds me you run down UK goverments, but you completely miss the picture about the dire circumstances in other parts of europe. The EU is a failure and will have to change massively, if it wants to survive.
 
Deutsch, don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be derogatory, actually the opposite, but people like you aren't the norm.
 
Kenny said:
Any chance the decent Miliband could make a comeback?
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As he's not a current MP then he would be ineligible. Unlike the Greens, UKIP etc, you must be a sitting MP to lead the Labour Party as they are the official Opposition and Leader of the Opposition is a Parliamentary office. So we would be some way from getting him in place, he couldn't just be parachuted in.

I can see why he would have a lot of appeal but perhaps that ship has sailed. He doesn't seem especially keen to return to British politics.
 
Tony Towner said:
I know you've said that before Penk, but I can assure you that neither the business I work for (16bn $ worldwide Corp, UK divisional t/o of £80m+) or any of our competitors buy or trade in RMB it is all dollars. It also isn't requested by or pushed by any of the factories. This may change as a result of today, although being American owned I doubt we'd go that way. At the moment I guarantee you that in the next 6 months none food prices will go up if the £ remains weak.
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Both HSBC and Western Union have mentioned it to me on a regular basis over the last 12 months. Maybe they are pushing it more than China itself?
 
Penk Wolf said:
Deutsch, don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be derogatory, actually the opposite, but people like you aren't the norm.
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Yeah, I know (and no offence taken). But I can only really talk from my own personal perspective, I can't second guess what other people think and why.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I don't know about Corbyn. I maintain he has more to say to people like me than the likes of Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham would probably have been a candidate who would have been less polarising in the long run and he is a fundamentally decent man, but he ran a terrible campaign. As he's now on about running for Mayor of Manchester it looks like that ship has sailed anyway. I like aspects of what Corbyn stands for, but can I see him making Labour into a particularly electable force? Probably not at this stage, though it depends to what extent the Tories implode.

I didn't vote Labour in 2015 because I don't want watered down Tory policies. If there were an election tomorrow then I might still vote Green again as I feel they most accurately represent my feelings on society and inclusion which make no mistake, are going to be absolutely key areas in the coming years. But I have more chance of voting Labour than I did 12 months ago.

UKIP are going to have to seriously re-invent themselves or they're done now, their purpose has been served. As it stands they have a reputation for producing completely incoherent manifestos with domestic policy that may as well be literally written on the back of a fag packet. Carswell seemed to rule himself out last night.
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thanks. interesting year ahead. I agree it will be interesting to see what happens with UKIP next. I want a labour party that appeals to the working man. So many of my labour friends have gone to UKIP! Its crazy! I just want a hung parliament. Coalition is the way forward as it encourages moderation. Look how arrogant the tories have been since last May? Whilst politically different I have tried to put my views with dignity and respect. I am neither racist or a bigot but have supported UKIP and brexit since the late 90's so I would not change now. I also want a decent opposition and fear a divided labour party does not do that.
 
All you lot going ace the pound was stabilised its all well need your bumps fucking felt. MArk Carney released quarter of a trillion pounds of quantitive easing to stop the shitfest today, But hey all be proud of yourselves.
 
I think ukip are far from done until an 'exit' in whatever form is negotiated. the difference now is that ukip will be perceived to have delivered for people and so would be trusted to give a view on any exit. after all this is an endorsement of farage more than anyone. this would never have happened without him nor picked up sufficient votes without him. if brexit doesn't resolve issues for people I imagine he'll be there to pick up some of the pieces, esp as he's still considered an outsider to the Westminster set.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
All you lot going ace the pound was stabilised its all well need your bumps fucking felt. MArk Carney released quarter of a trillion pounds of quantitive easing to stop the shitfest today, But hey all be proud of yourselves.
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I think most is tongue in cheek.
 
nimrod said:
I think ukip are far from done until an 'exit' in whatever form is negotiated. the difference now is that ukip will be perceived to have delivered for people and so would be trusted to give a view on any exit. after all this is an endorsement of farage more than anyone. this would never have happened without him nor picked up sufficient votes without him. if brexit doesn't resolve issues for people I imagine he'll be there to pick up some of the pieces, esp as he's still considered an outsider to the Westminster set.
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As massive fans of sovereignty and being fundamentally opposed to unelected people making decisions which impact on the running of a nation, surely they can only send Carswell up to have any input ;)

Let's say we get to 2020 and exit hasn't been fully sorted, or many of the reasons for an exit still exist (they almost certainly will), then fine, people might still find appeal Farage appealing - well, it takes all sorts. But they'd have to approach it in a completely different manner, they aren't going to get elected if they don't have professional manifestos which don't contain outrageous claims that are disprovable in about three seconds, they have previously had the central promise underpinning everything that they will campaign for a referendum AND then campaign to get us out of the EU - which clearly has/had electoral appeal, but it's gone now. They can't promise that now, it's gone, it's done. If you read all the non-EU stuff in their 2010 and 2015 manifestos I challenge you not to have a literally jaw dropping moment, they're works of comedy rather than serious politics.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
As massive fans of sovereignty and being fundamentally opposed to unelected people making decisions which impact on the running of a nation, surely they can only send Carswell up to have any input ;)

Let's say we get to 2020 and exit hasn't been fully sorted, or many of the reasons for an exit still exist (they almost certainly will), then fine, people might still find appeal Farage appealing - well, it takes all sorts. But they'd have to approach it in a completely different manner, they aren't going to get elected if they don't have professional manifestos which don't contain outrageous claims that are disprovable in about three seconds, they have previously had the central promise underpinning everything that they will campaign for a referendum AND then campaign to get us out of the EU - which clearly has/had electoral appeal, but it's gone now. They can't promise that now, it's gone, it's done. If you read all the non-EU stuff in their 2010 and 2015 manifestos I challenge you not to have a literally jaw dropping moment, they're works of comedy rather than serious politics.
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unfortunately i think you only need real policies if you have prospect of winning an election. i do take your point, but the lack of a significant credible manifesto didn't stop them polling 4m in the last election, and how much do you think the UKIP factor was to this vote given the winning margin was only 1.3m votes. essentially he/they won it. even better that it's up to the tories to sort out the exit consequences. if they succeed he's still taking part credit for it and if they struggle or fail, well, they're still looking after the establishment, time to give them a bloody nose. the lack of real statesmen in the other main parties is a real help to them of course. it's just my reading of it and i don't mean to give you nightmares.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Obama tried to scare us, making false threats. We didn't listen and we were right not to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36622706
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What? He's not said anything new in that article... In fact all he's ever said is that we won't be giving the UK any kind of glass slipper on trade.

It's too early to say Leave voters were right or wrong. Though the stock market responses are not particularly promising.
 
Johnny75 said:
The vote is done. Is there any chance you can pack this bollocks in?
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Many people are putting thoughts forward. It's a relevant point about Obama, he tried to say we wlouldn"t have a special relationship, to influence are democratic process. He has gone back on that now. That is very relevant. Why don't you mind your own business and stop being obnoxious and know it all?
 
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