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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Paddingtonwolf said:
But it is a suggestion that is very common. So often we see lines of the type of "the remoaners need to get on board or this won't work" and that just doesn't deal with the fact that the remoaners simply DON'T WANT THIS.
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I understand that but there are many things that drive us all insane, every day, that we can't change. But we don't keep going on about it all the time ? Again, the comments under the article, many of them just amount to "thick, ignorant Brexiters". Is it any wonder that people switch off at that point and don't want to debate it any further ?
 
Visage said:
Thats like saying 'What solutions does the Guardian have to make unloading a double barrelled shotgun in your mouth a success?'

It presupposes its even possible.
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So what will you do then ? After Wednesday and for the next two years, will you just carry on telling everyone that Brexit will be a disaster ? Then what ?
 
ProgWolf said:
So let's add a 'what if' to your list of 'what ifs'. In a few years time, if Leaving does prove to be worse for us all, but the EU is on the brink of collapse, should we still discuss ways of rejoining the EU ?
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And to think people accused you of dodging questions. How very dare they...
 
ProgWolf said:
I understand that but there are many things that drive us all insane, every day, that we can't change. But we don't keep going on about it all the time ? Again, the comments under the article, many of them just amount to "thick, ignorant Brexiters". Is it any wonder that people switch off at that point and don't want to debate it any further ?
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It is probably the.single biggest issue them country faces - I predict people will be going on about it every day for quite some time yet.
 
ProgWolf said:
I understand that but there are many things that drive us all insane, every day, that we can't change. But we don't keep going on about it all the time ? Again, the comments under the article, many of them just amount to "thick, ignorant Brexiters". Is it any wonder that people switch off at that point and don't want to debate it any further ?
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Now, I get all that. I really do.

My point is, "you" are wanting to do something that will drive me insane, every day. And I can't change it. I wish I could, but realistically it will be set in stone next week. I think it is a horrific mis-step. But, as I have said before, I don't blame those that voted for it. I blame those that set the referendum up. THEY thought they wouldn't lose. THEY misinterpreted the level of ill-feeling. THEY ran an appallingly poor campaign that meant they really missed a political open goal. So now we are where we are.

However, I and over 16 million others voted against this. I think we have the right to go on about what a crap idea we think it is. We have the right to not wish to engage in the process and say to the leave campaign - this is your bed, you lie in it. We have the right to wash our hands of the affair and let those that voted for it now sort out how it is going to work.

I have moved away from the thick ignorant brexiters rhetoric over the months since the vote. That was my original angry reaction. And I apologise for that. I don't think it was right. As I say I blame the two campaigns. And one campaign has won and now must deliver.

I won't be joining in. And to be honest if the way Britain comes out of it doesn't fit comfortably with me, I reserve the right to move away* from the country at a later date (if I could ever afford it).

*this would not mean joining my brother in Oz. It is a billion times worse there!
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Now, I get all that. I really do.

My point is, "you" are wanting to do something that will drive me insane, every day. And I can't change it. I wish I could, but realistically it will be set in stone next week. I think it is a horrific mis-step. But, as I have said before, I don't blame those that voted for it. I blame those that set the referendum up. THEY thought they wouldn't lose. THEY misinterpreted the level of ill-feeling. THEY ran an appallingly poor campaign that meant they really missed a political open goal. So now we are where we are.

However, I and over 16 million others voted against this. I think we have the right to go on about what a crap idea we think it is. We have the right to not wish to engage in the process and say to the leave campaign - this is your bed, you lie in it. We have the right to wash our hands of the affair and let those that voted for it now sort out how it is going to work.

I have moved away from the thick ignorant brexiters rhetoric over the months since the vote. That was my original angry reaction. And I apologise for that. I don't think it was right. As I say I blame the two campaigns. And one campaign has won and now must deliver.

I won't be joining in. And to be honest if the way Britain comes out of it doesn't fit comfortably with me, I reserve the right to move away* from the country at a later date (if I could ever afford it).

*this would not mean joining my brother in Oz. It is a billion times worse there!
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I sympathise with much of that Pad. But when you say to Leave voters 'this is your bed, you lie in it' don't you think we all have to 'lie in it' regardless of which way we voted ? Unless people decide to Emigrate of course ?
 
The Saturday Boy said:
And to think people accused you of dodging questions. How very dare they...
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I try not to dodge questions, but when I'm asked to come up with a Brexit Plan, then how am I qualified to do that ? I listened to all arguments from both sides and researched as much as possible online and then came to a decision. Isn't that what most people did ?
 
ProgWolf said:
I sympathise with much of that Pad. But when you say to Leave voters 'this is your bed, you lie in it' don't you think we all have to 'lie in it' regardless of which way we voted ? Unless people decide to Emigrate of course ?
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Ok, as a remain voter I would like to have membership of the single market and freedom of movement for all. Can you put that in your plan please?
 
ProgWolf said:
I try not to dodge questions, but when I'm asked to come up with a Brexit Plan, then how am I qualified to do that ? I listened to all arguments from both sides and researched as much as possible online and then came to a decision. Isn't that what most people did ?
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I didn't ask you for a Brexit plan.
 
The decision has other repercussions too. For example the CIs (particularly Guernsey and Jersey) are going to be (and are being) affected by Article 50. Fortunately I reckon that they might get minimal impact as they already have a strong financal services sector operating outside of EU. Where they are struggling ATM is re ruitment in agriculture and soon to be followed by hospitality.
 
Johnny75 said:
Ok, as a remain voter I would like to have membership of the single market and freedom of movement for all. Can you put that in your plan please?
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This is down to crap campaigning on both sides. For me, I believed Remain when they said if we voted to Leave the EU, we could not be in the Single Market and I thought everyone understood that by voting Leave would mean an end to Freedom of Movement, so neither of those are now on the table are they ?
 
ProgWolf said:
This is down to crap campaigning on both sides. For me, I believed Remain when they said if we voted to Leave the EU, we could not be in the Single Market and I thought everyone understood that by voting Leave would mean an end to Freedom of Movement, so neither of those are now on the table are they ?
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Surely the more relevant point is that leave said we could stay in the single market, Johnson for example was openly saying it. So presumably a good proportion of people who voted out believed that, in the same was as they believed £350m for the NHS?
 
ProgWolf said:
This is down to crap campaigning on both sides. For me, I believed Remain when they said if we voted to Leave the EU, we could not be in the Single Market and I thought everyone understood that by voting Leave would mean an end to Freedom of Movement, so neither of those are now on the table are they ?
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I believed the leave campaign when they said we wouldn't leave the single market so concluded there was no point in voting no.

Turns out the leave campaign was built on lies and they had no idea what leaving would actually mean. They were just pissing in the wind hoping it didn't come back at them.
 
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