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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Cyber-_-man said:
?

$#@! me!
Let's campaign to leave and then say that actually staying in part is essential. Doh! Lol
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Artificial price hikes and subsidies to not produce. I'm quite sure we can feed ourselves without over reliance on imports. Damn, some of them can diversify to grow the tulips that we won't be able to import now they become too expensive. Massive opportunities for them, now they are unshackled. Same for the fishermen.
 
Tony Towner said:
Wales voting out in general was bizarre given the significant investment they had received, but obviously they will get an equal amount or more from a Conservative government.
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How many people did that money directly go to though?
 
Tony Towner said:
I guess it depends how you define directly. Town centres regenerated, former colliery works invested in, roads improved etc
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Yeah, I get that, but if it doesn't help them in the pocket then they probably don't particularly see it as a positive.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Yeah, I get that, but if it doesn't help them in the pocket then they probably don't particularly see it as a positive.
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Well it's all money I can guarantee they wouldn't have got from the current Government and am damn sure they won't in the future. Sounds a bit 'what have the Roman's ever done for us'.
 
Tony Towner said:
Well it's all money I can guarantee they wouldn't have got from the current Government and am damn sure they won't in the future. Sounds a bit 'what have the Roman's ever done for us'.
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They may feel that it's been spent in the wrong areas. Maybe their hospitals are been closed but see their town centres been improved and want to put a stop to it.

Perhaps they don't like the EU dictating where it is spent?
 
Penk Wolf said:
They may feel that it's been spent in the wrong areas. Maybe their hospitals are been closed but see their town centres been improved and want to put a stop to it.

Perhaps they don't like the EU dictating where it is spent?
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Perhaps, but I would put a pretty hefty bet on Wales being the poorer for their decision. If we had a Labour Government there could potentially be some legitimisation, but the Tories look after their own and that's not Wales.
 
Tony Towner said:
Perhaps, but I would put a pretty hefty bet on Wales being the poorer for their decision. If we had a Labour Government there could potentially be some legitimisation, but the Tories look after their own and that's not Wales.
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I don't disagree and I may be wrong in my analysis, but just trying to point out that it's not always black and white.
 
ProgWolf said:
I think some of us have regretted some of the things we have said on here, or even the way we have said them, sometimes unintentionally. I know I have, and as DW said, I have cringed when I have read some of them back in the cold light of day.
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Thankfully I think you're the only one with this sentiment and that's not a slight on you. I don't agree with the general consensus on here but you quite rightly got took apart on a couple of things.
 
I don't hold any grudge against Prog or anyone on here, sometimes things get said in the heat of the moment that are probably beyond the mark. I like to think anyone off here who has met me knows that if nothing else I'm a genuine guy. I don't expect people to agree with me necessarily, but I like a debate which doesn't get personal. There's very little if anything that I've said on here over the last say, three and a half years that I wouldn't say personally. Football and non-football.
 
Papper said:
Artificial price hikes and subsidies to not produce. I'm quite sure we can feed ourselves without over reliance on imports. Damn, some of them can diversify to grow the tulips that we won't be able to import now they become too expensive. Massive opportunities for them, now they are unshackled. Same for the fishermen.
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I have long said that instead of paying farmers to set aside pay them grow more using the subsidies budget. Keeps imports and food prices down.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Yeah, I get that, but if it doesn't help them in the pocket then they probably don't particularly see it as a positive.
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On Thursday, Question Time came from Bangor in North Wales. Some EU funding went towards the refurb of the hall it was based in. As you say Penk, if they could have seen some regeneration in some of their more run down areas, youth clubs, social housing etc, maybe that would have made a difference ? But then some would say how much of that is down to the Government / Welsh Assembly ?

Another interesting point came from a woman who said that people in North Wales were fed up of seeing what they perceive to be preferential treatment and more funding going to South Wales. I remember the word she used was 'Cardiffcentric'.

There is even a North / South divide in Wales.

I wonder if, as technology has progressed and so much information is available on the internet, compared to years ago when institutions, councils, governments, officials, were less accountable because it was difficult to access information. Whereas now, we can access so much information and resentment builds a lot quicker if people think they are getting a raw deal at the expense of other people in other areas, whether it's Wrexham / Cardiff, or Middlesbrough / Richmond.
 
Thats like saying 'What solutions does the Guardian have to make unloading a double barrelled shotgun in your mouth a success?'

It presupposes its even possible.
 
ProgWolf said:
So what solutions does The Guardian have to make Brexit a success ?
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So you believe that our democracy (which we are supposedly taken back control of) should not include dissent and disagreement?

Surely if, over the next 2 years, it becomes abundantly clear that leaving the EU is worse for us than remaining then there should be some means by which that possibility is fully explored. A balanced overall media is vital for this and at present, certainly in terms reach and readership the leave position is more prevalent.

It is not for those that disagree to outline how to make a.success of something they do not agree with - that is a rather perverse suggestion to make.
 
Visage said:
Thats like saying 'What solutions does the Guardian have to make unloading a double barrelled shotgun in your mouth a success?'

It presupposes its even possible.
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When we were given the date of the Referendum, The Guardian said Brexit would be a disaster. Now, they are still saying Brexit will be disaster. After Article 50 is triggered on Wednesday, The Guardian will still be saying Brexit will be a disaster. I get it. The Guardian thinks Brexit will be a disaster. How many more times does The Guardian need to say that Brexit will be a disaster ? Can it be any more of a disaster if The Guardian keeps saying it ?
 
But it is a suggestion that is very common. So often we see lines of the type of "the remoaners need to get on board or this won't work" and that just doesn't deal with the fact that the remoaners simply DON'T WANT THIS.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
So you believe that our democracy (which we are supposedly taken back control of) should not include dissent and disagreement?

Surely if, over the next 2 years, it becomes abundantly clear that leaving the EU is worse for us than remaining then there should be some means by which that possibility is fully explored. A balanced overall media is vital for this and at present, certainly in terms reach and readership the leave position is more prevalent.

It is not for those that disagree to outline how to make a.success of something they do not agree with - that is a rather perverse suggestion to make.
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So let's add a 'what if' to your list of 'what ifs'. In a few years time, if Leaving does prove to be worse for us all, but the EU is on the brink of collapse, should we still discuss ways of rejoining the EU ?
 
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