REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[thehistorymakers]

So people who voted leave on the basis that it will reduce immigration are gambling that the rich will suddenly stop benefitting from immigration?

Amazing.

No, people voted leave for many different reasons.

 

[visage]

OK, so we've knocked one down. What else?

 

[thehistorymakers]

OK, so we've knocked one down. What else?

We know that the EU has not benefited the low-paid and poor and that it has benefited the wealthy and we'll educated, so there it should be easy to understand why the low paid voted against the EU and why the rich and we'll educated voted to remain.
The EU was set up to bring in line poorer EU countries, to the economic prosperity of the UK and Germany. It has not worked, even though hundreds of billions were thrown at the pan European project. Germany and England were expected to pay the price of this project that hasnt worked. It was paid for by the low-paid in the UK and Germany. The wealthy and we'll educated have enjoyed prosperity and have not had to pay the sacrifice, to pay for that failure. Now the EU is throwing hundreds of billions at new EU countries in the the east of Europe. It was the low paid, who again would have to see their living standards decline, to pay for the new project.
Is it any wonder that the people who have paid the price for the EU failure in trying to enrich southern EU countries , that when they are given a referendum, vote to leave?
The EU has been good for the wealthy and we'll educated in the UK, I can understand why they voted to remain, they are happy that the poor and low paid have to foot the bill, with lower living standards.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I didn't say anything about you dismissing the case for immigration, no need to be so defensive. Merely pointing out that we couldn't seriously reduce the numbers to 0 even if we wanted to, not without screwing everything up.

Even allowing for how much the Tories love a screeching U-turn, they won't boost staff numbers in government agencies. Much like the myths about national debt and the causes of the 2007/8 crash, D-Cam and Gideon did a fine job of brainwashing the country into thinking that every "back office" job is a bit of a doss on the country's time and money and is totally expendable. Of course all it means is that nothing runs properly because the support staff aren't there. Costs us more in the long run, on multiple levels. Still, Tories gonna Tory.

Apologies if it came over as defensive. I just didn't want to repeat comments made on the Theresa thread about Torys being Torys

 

[Trips]

Well as you wanted to Remain, even if we found an article that described exactly why the EU was in meltdown, you would find a way to ridicule it. We can all play that game. Or like you we could try sarcasm and say that Greece was a wonderful example of how well the EU model is working and significantly benefiting its people and youth unemployment was really low all across the EU.

Post an article that has some merit and is backed up with some evidence of the EU crumbling or in meltdown and I will respect it. Post crap like the two articles you did and I will ridicule it, yes.

 

[visage]

We know that the EU has not benefited the low-paid and poor and that it has benefited the wealthy and we'll educated, so there it should be easy to understand why the low paid voted against the EU and why the rich and we'll educated voted to remain.
The EU was set up to bring in line poorer EU countries, to the economic prosperity of the UK and Germany. It has not worked, even though hundreds of billions were thrown at the pan European project. Germany and England were expected to pay the price of this project that hasnt worked. It was paid for by the low-paid in the UK and Germany. The wealthy and we'll educated have enjoyed prosperity and have not had to pay the sacrifice, to pay for that failure. Now the EU is throwing hundreds of billions at new EU countries in the the east of Europe. It was the low paid, who again would have to see their living standards decline, to pay for the new project.
Is it any wonder that the people who have paid the price for the EU failure in trying to enrich southern EU countries , that when they are given a referendum, vote to leave?
The EU has been good for the wealthy and we'll educated in the UK, I can understand why they voted to remain, they are happy that the poor and low paid have to foot the bill, with lower living standards.

OK, so leaving the EU will help the low paid. How?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

OK, so leaving the EU will help the low paid. How?

Presumably, and this is only my guess, those jobs that" British "workers tend to shun will have to pay a higher wage to attract people. Toilet cleaners, hospitality workers, care workers, fruit pickers! Costs may also go up as wages go up. That's the economics. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

This is a list of average wages. Look at us in comparison to former eastern bloc countries. There is the answer to why free unrestricted movement has helped cause the issues stated. That's why they will work here for less than minimum wage cause its still double what they make back home

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

They can't though. That is why the national minimum wage is there. If they are paid cash on a lower rate then they are realistically outside the tax system anyway.

I think your belief that everywhere there is rife flaunting of the minimum wage is frankly nonsensical.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

They can't though. That is why the national minimum wage is there. If they are paid cash on a lower rate then they are realistically outside the tax system anyway.

I think your belief that everywhere there is rife flaunting of the minimum wage is frankly nonsensical.

And I am beginning to find your responses nauseating so we are even. You asks d me to highlight a problem and I did. You asked me why migrants come here and I did. Let's just say no one abuses the minimum wage and no one gets paid cash in hand just to humour you. The minimum wage is still 2 or 3 times what as Bulgarian, Romanian or Hungarian gets for the same in their own country . would you go and work in another country for 3 times your current wage? I would. But you stick to your views.

 

[visage]

Why will wages rise once we leave the EU?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Why will wages rise once we leave the EU?

See post 6667

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Which is bloody wrong, but you carry on.

 

[visage]

Clearly once brexit goes through we'll see binmen driving Lamborghinis...

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Which is bloody wrong, but you carry on.

So when you can't fill a vacancy what do you do? The best way is to offer more money to make it more attractive. Then prices have to rise as you have higher costs. That is the knock on. Please instead of one line snipes why don't you therorise or offer a different perspective other than "you're wrong" or " you spout nonsense" which is a tad tiresome and beneath you.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I do it because your theory is nonsensical and needs nothing further to debunk it. We are not going to suddenly see massive wage rises for low paid jobs. It would be massively inflationary for a start.

 

[visage]

I still don't get the causal link between leaving the EU and giving the low paid better wages.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I do it because your theory is nonsensical and needs nothing further to debunk it. We are not going to suddenly see massive wage rises for low paid jobs. It would be massively inflationary for a start.

So I ask you again. When you have more vacancies than people to fill them if migrant labour reduces how do you propose to fill those vacancies?

 

[thehistorymakers]

OK, so leaving the EU will help the low paid. How?

Because there will be less people going for the same job, eventually. This will help swing all the bargaining power that is now in favour of the company back a little to the worker.

 

[leedswolf]

Workers with bargaining power? That was removed 30 odd years ago.

 

[darlowolf64]

Because there will be less people going for the same job, eventually. This will help swing all the bargaining power that is now in favour of the company back a little to the worker.

No it won't...The conservatives will squash the Unions