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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

OK, if you dont take that as gospel, why did the Tories filibuster a bill that would oblige the government to maintain equivalent rights once we leave the EU?

Thinking that the Tories can be given the freedom to tear up worker protections but wont use it is naive - and it wont be the CEOs that suffer, it will be those at the other end that we're apparently leaving the EU to help.
 
Oh, goodie. Another problem we left the EU to solve when the EU didnt cause the problem in the first place.

I can think of 3 or four of these eastern European tent shanty places around Peterborough and they have been there a few years. What is not reported is the knock on cost for clean up , refuse, supervision and policing. As I say there are three or four I can think of. I can't think of a single one with UK British inhabitants. So it appears to be an eastern European issue. Why? Because under freedom of movement they can just turn up.Once here they become my, your, everyone's problem if they have no job and no house. We have enough UK citizens without housing and without work. Its hard enough to help them move forward without addition's from abroad. This is why freedom of movement needed regulating. It is why so many voted to leave. The current system really is not working.
 
But immigration is unlikely to reduce after brexit. You've said yourself. You think those seasonal workers will shell out their sub minimum wages for accommodation?
 
But immigration is unlikely to reduce after brexit. You've said yourself. You think those seasonal workers will shell out their sub minimum wages for accommodation?

The immigration post brexit will be regulated. People will come here with as job offer and a work permit or similar arrangement. At present we can do nothing with these shanties. They have a right to be here ,crazily.

As for seasonal workers, again around Friday bridge and wisbech there used to be hostels dirt cheap to facilitate the migrant labour influx. Basic but not a tent or an eyesore. I think that will continue with an exemption regulation or similar. What these shanties contain currently are people with no job, no right to benefit, yet still draining recourses. What must life in parts of eastern Europe be like if living in a tent near Peterborough is preferable to staying at home? And that is one of my biggest concerns with the EU. The disparity between member states is too great. The haves will be supporting the have nots for so long it will drag them down.
 
If tge government didn't use its powers to regulate immigration before brexit, why will it use them afterwards?

You've currently got government ministers touring the world asking for free trade deals with various countries, and these will invariably also come with provisions for increased migration.

We currently take in 200k non EU immigrants a year. A government that spouts anti immigration rhetoric could reduce that to zero. But they don't. So why are you convinced they'll reduced EU immigration significantly once their power to do so us increased?
 
If tge government didn't use its powers to regulate immigration before brexit, why will it use them afterwards?

You've currently got government ministers touring the world asking for free trade deals with various countries, and these will invariably also come with provisions for increased migration.

We currently take in 200k non EU immigrants a year. A government that spouts anti immigration rhetoric could reduce that to zero. But they don't. So why are you convinced they'll reduced EU immigration significantly once their power to do so us increased?

You are completely missing my point. I will make it again. If you are from a non EU country and you are here without a visa you can be deported. If you are from the eu you currently have a right to be here. Post brexit that will change in some way. I cannot believe the govt, even this shower, will not ensure that if you are here without a job ,without money, without a home, living in a tent you can be shipped home. Rigcontinue

For the umpteenth time why do remainers think that leavers are all anti immigration? I am anti freedom of movement. Regulated immigration is good for many reasons. It will continue but it will be better controlled.
 
You are completely missing my point. I will make it again. If you are from a non EU country and you are here without a visa you can be deported. If you are from the eu you currently have a right to be here. Post brexit that will change in some way. I cannot believe the govt, even this shower, will not ensure that if you are here without a job ,without money, without a home, living in a tent you can be shipped home. Rigcontinue

I understand your point completely - post brexit the government will have greater control over immigration. 100% true.

But if they dont use they powers that they have *now*, why are you confident that they'll suddenly start using them when they have more?

For the umpteenth time why do remainers think that leavers are all anti immigration? I am anti freedom of movement. Regulated immigration is good for many reasons. It will continue but it will be better controlled.

You're not anti-immigration, you're just against the freedom to move from country to country? OK....
 
I think you're missing the point on purpose vis. Uncontrolled immigration means anyone can come in - regulated immigration means people with the skills the economy needs can come in.
 
I understand your point completely - post brexit the government will have greater control over immigration. 100% true.

But if they dont use they powers that they have *now*, why are you confident that they'll suddenly start using them when they have more?



You're not anti-immigration, you're just against the freedom to move from country to country? OK....

Freedom of movement with the right to remain. Yes. Its a shit idea that puts pressure on countries whose economies and wages are better and higher and creates false hope for those in countries whose economies and wages are significantly lower. Hence tent shanty towns.
Freedom of movement works between countries who are more or less equal. 15 or so countries in the eu don't meet that criteria.
 
The Border Agency, the civil service, the DWP, none of these are adequately resourced to ensure that we only accept those who fulfil an economic purpose. Given we need immigration to keep our economy running, it seems unlikely that we'll use a sledgehammer to crack a nut (although you never know with these clowns). We've already turned down the idea of an Australian-style points system for visas (rightly so in my opinion, actually one of the few long-standing UKIP policies that Cruella isn't pursuing at the moment).

Logistically it just isn't going to work.
 
I think you're missing the point on purpose vis. Uncontrolled immigration means anyone can come in - regulated immigration means people with the skills the economy needs can come in.

We have regulated immigration *now* though - the government chooses not to use those regulations.
 
The Border Agency, the civil service, the DWP, none of these are adequately resourced to ensure that we only accept those who fulfil an economic purpose. Given we need immigration to keep our economy running, it seems unlikely that we'll use a sledgehammer to crack a nut (although you never know with these clowns). We've already turned down the idea of an Australian-style points system for visas (rightly so in my opinion, actually one of the few long-standing UKIP policies that Cruella isn't pursuing at the moment).

Logistically it just isn't going to work.

That is a different point entirely. Again we agree that the under resourcing of the essential infrastructure of the UK will come back to bite us in the arse. Positively however, new regulations coulkd create new jobs in those agencies you mention. That's a win win!

Of course we need immigration. Please show me a post once in the last 2 years when I have said otherweotherweise. The word I include is controlled. I like the points system but hey ho.
 
I didn't say anything about you dismissing the case for immigration, no need to be so defensive. Merely pointing out that we couldn't seriously reduce the numbers to 0 even if we wanted to, not without screwing everything up.

Even allowing for how much the Tories love a screeching U-turn, they won't boost staff numbers in government agencies. Much like the myths about national debt and the causes of the 2007/8 crash, D-Cam and Gideon did a fine job of brainwashing the country into thinking that every "back office" job is a bit of a doss on the country's time and money and is totally expendable. Of course all it means is that nothing runs properly because the support staff aren't there. Costs us more in the long run, on multiple levels. Still, Tories gonna Tory.
 
Since 2010 the Tories have cut UK Border Agency staff by over 27%

The government likes to talk tough on immigration as its a vote winner, but their actions dont match up.
 
Since 2010 the Tories have cut UK Border Agency staff by over 27%

The government likes to talk tough on immigration as its a vote winner, but their actions dont match up.

We know that and also they didn't want to leave the EU.
 
Why do you think the government hasn't reduced immigration in the last seven years, despite having the powers to do so?
 
So people who voted leave on the basis that it will reduce immigration are gambling that the rich will suddenly stop benefitting from immigration?

Amazing.
 
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