REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Trips]

I haven't, but I have a problem about our youngsters not be trained.

But if we are still going to be able to bring over skilled/trained workers, they wouldn't have to change anything. The way to increase British youngsters in training for these roles isn't to limit the amount of immigration, the first step is to make tuition fees less expensive.

 

[ProgWolf]

Did I really just read the question "why do nurses need to go to university?"? :icon_lol: mate you clearly live in a Carry On film. What a cretin.

I was just asking the question based on some articles I had read, so Yes, it was me that asked that question you stupid thick moronic tw*t. Do some research before you start throwing insults around, then you won't get them rammed back down your throat you complete and utter Cock !


https://www.networks.nhs.uk/discussion/a-lifeboat-for-nhs-managers/353656902

As one of the contributors to the above link, Susie K, says to another poster on the above link, "I have said for years that training needs to be revised & taken out of universities! So, Ann, you'll come out with a degree? Well jolly good for you. But just what are you expecting that it will do for you? There's too few qualified staff delivering basic care in hospital with current training. Nursing is just that - caring for people who are ill. Why is a degree necessary to enable the right person to do this. A degree does not equip you with the qualities to be a "good" nurse.

 

[Boozad]

Eventually pressure from unlimited EU immigration will decrease. Governments and companies hopefully will see the necessity to train British workers, Doctors and nurses etc instead of leaving them on the slagheap.

One specialised nursing recruitment agency (just taking one example on its own) currently has 6,599 nursing posts it's looking to fill. 6,599. And 96% of hospitals appear to be 'dangerously short of nurses'. So when the decrease in unlimited EU immigration finally kicks in after we've shut the doors, will UK nationals suddenly decide 'Oh, I can be a nurse now!' and the issue will be solved in one swift, fell swoop? No, of course it fucking won't. Why do you think health services have to bring foreign nurses here? To stick two fingers up to people who wanted to be no part of the EU but had no choice until the referendum?

Skilled labour across all sectors is always in demand in this country and leaving the EU is not going to change that for the better in any way, shape or form.

 

[Boozad]

I haven't, but I have a problem about our youngsters not be trained.

Fuck all to do with immigration (or EU membership) though is it?

 

[Trips]

So far, apart from posts on The Wolves, I've been on threads on here about Films, Food, Music, Jokes and Beer and it was all good natured. No-one gets wound up or confrontational if someone doesn't like a film or a beer that someone else likes, but as we have seen, the Referendum result has split the country and even families ? I always think an unwritten rule for a Forum should be, to treat it like you were in the pub, talking to one of the family ?

For example, if you voted Leave and you were talking to a family member who voted to Remain, it wouldn't get personal or abusive and we might hold our tongue and be more polite perhaps, even if we strongly disagreed. It would be a civil conversation. We may even concede ground on some points and not argue for the sake of arguing ?

I was just asking the question based on some articles I had read, so Yes, it was me that asked that question you stupid thick moronic tw*t. Do some research before you start throwing insults around, then you won't get them rammed back down your throat you complete and utter Cock !

 

[visage]

It's all maybe's I'm afraid. Maybe it was the perception of the working class, that by voting to Leave, it would send out a message to the powers that be in the UK ? That they felt they had been ignored and marginalised for too long, particularly, as some may have seen it, at the expense of unskilled workers coming in from EU Countries ? That they didn't want more and more people from the EU coming onto their Estates because the strain on their public services was already at breaking point ?

Working class white boys are still the largest under-achieving ethnic group, followed very closely by black working class boys.
When I think about this I am always reminded of one of Paul Weller's lyrics "From the playground to the wasteground, hope ends at 17".
That was back in the early 80's and the demonising of the working class was probably started by Thatcher, but things have got progressively worse since then and maybe, for the working class, Freedom of Movement has made it worse still for them ? Add to that the urban myth, "White working class are lazy and don't want to work...." Sounds like a 'story' from The Daily Mail ?

If we can put an end to the madness of uncontrolled numbers coming in, and the obsession of spending money on everything except our own kids futures, will our Government finally 'get it' and start putting our own people first, (Black and White), starting with those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves at the bottom of the educational pile ? It may be a forlorn hope, but I'm just trying to give reasons as to why some may have thought they might be better off outside the EU, because they felt that the EU was doing nothing for them while we part of it. Maybe they thought nothing would change for them if we stayed in ? Maybe they think there is more of chance that things could change by coming out. But for that we would have to rely on the Government of the day. We can only hope that now we have voted to Leave, those running the country will no longer be complacent and give help and support to those who need it most.........and then I woke up.

So we leave the EU, and then the government start caring about the low paid?

You've got Liam Fox literally saying that once we've left we can dismantle the worker protections the EU put in place, but apparently the UK will become a workers paradise?

Are you fucking mental?

 

[visage]

But if that's true, take Freedom of Movement. David Cameron apparently went to Merkel to get some last minute concessions a couple of weeks prior to the Referendum but came back with nothing. Why didn't he just show everyone the small print of our EU membership, if it really exists, that proved that we had the power to restrict numbers coming in ? If that was even remotely possible, surely Cameron wouldn't have gone crawling to Merkel with his begging bowl ?

Because David Cameron knew that a significant amount of UK prosperity relies on imported labour.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Because David Cameron knew that a significant amount of UK prosperity relies on imported labour.

The prosperity was not going to the majority of the population. So where was it going?

 

[visage]

To rich people. As it will do post brexit as well.

 

[thehistorymakers]

So we leave the EU, and then the government start caring about the low paid?

You've got Liam Fox literally saying that once we've left we can dismantle the worker protections the EU put in place, but apparently the UK will become a workers paradise?

Are you $#@!ing mental?

We didn't vote for a government, we voted to leave the EU. To change a government you have general elections.

 

[visage]

We didn't vote for a government, we voted to leave the EU. To change a government you have general elections.

So how will Britain be better off on April 1st 2019?

Because everything you've complained about so far will be unchanged.

 

[Trips]

We voted for a government in 2015, the party that said they would hold a referendum.

 

[ProgWolf]

Sorry Trips, can you tell I'm having a bad day and that one really wound me up ?
Anyway, I didn't want to disappoint him with a wimpy reply. :handbags:

As for my other posts you copied in, with family or friends in the pub, no-one has ever spoken to me like that. How about you ?

This thread has bought out the worst in me. I need to go and have a lie down.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

But if we are still going to be able to bring over skilled/trained workers, they wouldn't have to change anything. The way to increase British youngsters in training for these roles isn't to limit the amount of immigration, the first step is to make tuition fees less expensive.

I disagree on the means of getting more youngsters trained, tuition fees generally aren't prohibitive as they're rarely paid for up front, the bigger hurdle in my experience is getting yourself going in industry after you've got your qualifications. Some bigger companies will run their own trainee schemes, like the company I work for now, but smaller companies often can't afford to carry a trainee who isn't capable of contributing to the business effectively so those opportunities can be hard to come by for people who've studied without being part of an organised trainee scheme.

 

[ProgWolf]

So we leave the EU, and then the government start caring about the low paid?

You've got Liam Fox literally saying that once we've left we can dismantle the worker protections the EU put in place, but apparently the UK will become a workers paradise?

Are you fucking mental?

If we are not happy with our Government we can kick them out at a General Election. If we had voted to Remain, we could never have voted to kick out the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. Like I said in the above post, I was trying to give a reason as to why so many working class people voted to Leave. No-one knows how things are going to be 5-10 years from now. But do you really think that things would have got better for us had we stayed ? If so, how ?

 

[Trips]

I disagree on the means of getting more youngsters trained, tuition fees generally aren't prohibitive as they're rarely paid for up front, the bigger hurdle in my experience is getting yourself going in industry after you've got your qualifications. Some bigger companies will run their own trainee schemes, like the company I work for now, but smaller companies often can't afford to carry a trainee who isn't capable of contributing to the business effectively so those opportunities can be hard to come by for people who've studied without being part of an organised trainee scheme.

I know there is more to do than just reducing tuition fees. That would be the first step I took however, some people are put off from training for certain roles because they will have to start paying back the fee when they start earning decent money, and with the hike in tuition fees a couple of years ago that will put people off.

The company I work for also runs trainee/apprentice schemes up to Level 4 (which is degree equivalent I think) - but I don't think this gets promoted enough by bigger companies, or by our government

 

[Trips]

If we are not happy with our Government we can kick them out at a General Election. If we had voted to Remain, we could never have voted to kick out the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. Like I said in the above post, I was trying to give a reason as to why so many working class people voted to Leave. No-one knows how things are going to be 5-10 years from now. But do you really think that things would have got better for us had we stayed ? If so, how ?

It's doubtful things would have massively changed if we remained. We would have maintained the status quo on a lot of things. We didn't have the vote so we could remain to change things, change was the promise from leave.

I highly doubt that the poor/working class are going to massively benefit from leaving the EU.

The question is, how are things going to improve now we have voted leave? Over to you.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If we are not happy with our Government we can kick them out at a General Election. If we had voted to Remain, we could never have voted to kick out the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. Like I said in the above post, I was trying to give a reason as to why so many working class people voted to Leave. No-one knows how things are going to be 5-10 years from now. But do you really think that things would have got better for us had we stayed ? If so, how ?

The damage is going to be done by 2019 when the Tories have negotiated a dreadful deal for us, with no mandate. And there's nothing we can do.

 

[leedswolf]

We voted for a government in 2015, the party that said they would hold a referendum.

The Conservative party manifesto, on which they were elected has a very clear statement in it about ‘we say yes to the single market’ and it talks about ‘we will safeguard British interests in the single market’.

 

[Tony Towner]

I see a lot of comments on here, along the lines of "if I don't like the Government I can vote them out". Under FPTP this is only really true in about a quarter of constituencies and ironically if Brexit brings about Scottish Independence you have signed us up to a Tory Government indefinitely.