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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

So Long Architect said:
And we've essentially gone from being in a position of being partners and part of a co-operative organisation to being competitors - and the rhetoric from our esteemed leaders has been very combative. So if we're now competing with rather than working with the EU, then we can only expect them to compete back.
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I'd rather be competitive than have prices kept artificially high for the monopolies and cartels. Farmers paid to not produce etc. Let them be combative, they're pissed off one of the big funders to the farce has left the ring. I'm optimistic ...
 
Papper said:
I agree with the majority of what you say but you're way off the mark here.
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Ok Papper I will put it another way. People never used to haver to go to University for three years to become a Nurse.
(They never had to go to University at all)

Why do they have to do it now ?
 
Because educating nurses properly is important?

There are lots of things that we didn't use to do.
 
Visage said:
Theres a common theme among you, THM and Papper - you correctly identify many systemic issues facing the UK, but then you think that leaving the EU will solve them.

Its not the EU stopping the government paying Doctors and nurses more. Its not the EU stopping the government from raising the minimum wage, and its not the EU stopping the government from restricting non-EU immigration as much as they want and its not the EU that stopped the government from applying restrictions to EU immigration.

So, given all that, what will leaving the EU actually do?
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Why wasn't any of this bought up by the Remain Camp during the run up to the Referendum ?
If we could have stayed in the EU and our Government could still put restriction on numbers coming in, surely they would have argued this and then Freedom of Movement would not have been such an issue ?
 
ProgWolf said:
Why wasn't any of this bought up by the Remain Camp during the run up to the Referendum ?
If we could have stayed in the EU and our Government could still put restriction on numbers coming in, surely they would have argued this and then Freedom of Movement would not have been such an issue ?
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It was. Project Fear, I believe it was dismissed as.
 
So Long Architect said:
All I can say is that I hope you have voted for political parties that understand the value of education and training, or if you haven't in the past, you will in the future.

While I'm here, are you able to tell me any ways in which life will improve for impoverished British people now we've left the EU? THM's doctors and nurses thing seems not to be one of them.
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It's all maybe's I'm afraid. Maybe it was the perception of the working class, that by voting to Leave, it would send out a message to the powers that be in the UK ? That they felt they had been ignored and marginalised for too long, particularly, as some may have seen it, at the expense of unskilled workers coming in from EU Countries ? That they didn't want more and more people from the EU coming onto their Estates because the strain on their public services was already at breaking point ?

Working class white boys are still the largest under-achieving ethnic group, followed very closely by black working class boys.
When I think about this I am always reminded of one of Paul Weller's lyrics "From the playground to the wasteground, hope ends at 17".
That was back in the early 80's and the demonising of the working class was probably started by Thatcher, but things have got progressively worse since then and maybe, for the working class, Freedom of Movement has made it worse still for them ? Add to that the urban myth, "White working class are lazy and don't want to work...." Sounds like a 'story' from The Daily Mail ?

If we can put an end to the madness of uncontrolled numbers coming in, and the obsession of spending money on everything except our own kids futures, will our Government finally 'get it' and start putting our own people first, (Black and White), starting with those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves at the bottom of the educational pile ? It may be a forlorn hope, but I'm just trying to give reasons as to why some may have thought they might be better off outside the EU, because they felt that the EU was doing nothing for them while we part of it. Maybe they thought nothing would change for them if we stayed in ? Maybe they think there is more of chance that things could change by coming out. But for that we would have to rely on the Government of the day. We can only hope that now we have voted to Leave, those running the country will no longer be complacent and give help and support to those who need it most.........and then I woke up.
 
Visage said:
It was. Project Fear, I believe it was dismissed as.
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But if that's true, take Freedom of Movement. David Cameron apparently went to Merkel to get some last minute concessions a couple of weeks prior to the Referendum but came back with nothing. Why didn't he just show everyone the small print of our EU membership, if it really exists, that proved that we had the power to restrict numbers coming in ? If that was even remotely possible, surely Cameron wouldn't have gone crawling to Merkel with his begging bowl ?
 
Most nurses get qualified and can then go and work in Oz. Automatic visa tick as it is a skill they want. And they pay about twice what the NHS does.
 
ProgWolf said:
But if that's true, take Freedom of Movement. David Cameron apparently went to Merkel to get some last minute concessions a couple of weeks prior to the Referendum but came back with nothing. Why didn't he just show everyone the small print of our EU membership, if it really exists, that proved that we had the power to restrict numbers coming in ? If that was even remotely possible, surely Cameron wouldn't have gone crawling to Merkel with his begging bowl ?
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This I find interesting.

Brexit means an end to unlimited EU movement over here as we will no longer be signed up to that accord. However, we weren't signed up to Schengen anyway so there was still passport control which actually was a fairly significant disincentive.

Plus Brexit does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to change the situation for immigration from non-EU countries.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Because educating nurses properly is important?

There are lots of things that we didn't use to do.
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So, qualified Nurses that come to the UK from other countries, inside and outside of the EU, when they 'Qualify' is it the same standard of qualification regardless of which country they are studying in ?
Or, when a Nurse completes her three years at Uni in the UK, are they better qualified ? Do they have more knowledge ?
Or is a Degree obtained in Romania actually the same as one obtained in the UK ?

How much does this differ outside the EU and what qualification would you need ?

I don't know the answer to these questions, but the cynic in me assumes that once again UK people will be at a disadvantage both financially, having to pay so much to get their qualification and also having to spend three years at Uni to get it. Is it apples for apples ??
 
Did I really just read the question "why do nurses need to go to university?"? :icon_lol: mate you clearly live in a Carry On film. What a cretin.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Eventually pressure from unlimited EU immigration will decrease. Governments and companies hopefully will see the necessity to train British workers, Doctors and nurses etc instead of leaving them on the slagheap.
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Eventually? How long is this eventually going to take? And what will we do if it doesn't materialise?
& Hopefully? So it's guesswork, based on a hunch? And again, how will we measure this, and ensure that govt/businesses do address this?

And as has been asked repeatedly, how will leaving the EU make this happen?
 
thehistorymakers said:
Eventually pressure from unlimited EU immigration will decrease. Governments and companies hopefully will see the necessity to train British workers, Doctors and nurses etc instead of leaving them on the slagheap.
Click to expand...

I didn't think you had a problem with skilled workers coming over here THM? It was the unskilled and low-paid ones you disagreed with. If you are happy for skilled workers to come here, why would the government and companies need to change anything at all?
 
HCA's don't need to go to University, but they cannot perform the role a qualified nurse does
 
Trips said:
I didn't think you had a problem with skilled workers coming over here THM? It was the unskilled and low-paid ones you disagreed with. If you are happy for skilled workers to come here, why would the government and companies need to change anything at all?
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I haven't, but I have a problem about our youngsters not be trained.
 
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